> "robbielynn" <robbielynnw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> news:793bacf4-04f1-4402-af51-674cc6777be9@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

> > I couldn't live in California b/c of liberal services
> > like this to the illegals.

> So you'd rather live in a state where a child (who has
> lived in the US for 98% of their life) is refused
> medical treatment and allowed to die?

> On Jan 31, 4:38 pm, "Kris Baker" <parallelcoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > "robbielynn" <robbielynnw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> >news:793bacf4-04f1-4402-af51-674cc6777be9@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

> > > I couldn't live in California b/c of liberal services
> > > like this to the illegals.

> > So you'd rather live in a state where a child (who has
> > lived in the US for 98% of their life) is refused
> > medical treatment and allowed to die?

> Kris, your question or statement has no basis at all.  Hospitals
> aren't suppose to turn away anyone.  Perhaps some do but the law of
> the land eventually comes down on them.  Not to mention in many urban
> or poorer areas health care is available although it might not be the
> best.  America is the greatest nation in the world and I realize
> mistakes are made with regard to some not receiving healthcare but
> that's more of a minority than anything else.  When will liberals like
> you stop being so negative about what we try to do for illegals or
> legals for that matter....when!  You remind me of the person that
> always sees the glass half empty rather than half full.

> On Feb 1, 7:17 am, Charlie <cvarric...@aol.com> wrote:

> > On Jan 31, 4:38 pm, "Kris Baker" <parallelcoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > "robbielynn" <robbielynnw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> > >news:793bacf4-04f1-4402-af51-674cc6777be9@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

> > > > I couldn't live in California b/c of liberal services
> > > > like this to the illegals.

> > > So you'd rather live in a state where a child (who has
> > > lived in the US for 98% of their life) is refused
> > > medical treatment and allowed to die?

> > Kris, your question or statement has no basis at all.  Hospitals
> > aren't suppose to turn away anyone.  Perhaps some do but the law of
> > the land eventually comes down on them.  Not to mention in many urban
> > or poorer areas health care is available although it might not be the
> > best.  America is the greatest nation in the world and I realize
> > mistakes are made with regard to some not receiving healthcare but
> > that's more of a minority than anything else.  When will liberals like
> > you stop being so negative about what we try to do for illegals or
> > legals for that matter....when!  You remind me of the person that
> > always sees the glass half empty rather than half full.

> Hospitals do not turn people away. The DO treat people differently. I
> worked for several years at L.A. County Hospital. I have seen people
> lie on gurneys in the hallway waiting to have a leg set... for three
> days or more. All patients in hospitals are not treated equally. If
> one were to show up to Cedar Sinai hospital with a broken leg and no
> insurance, that person would be stabilized and then sent to The County
> for treatment. With the right insurance a patient with a broken leg
> would be leaving the hospital on crutches within a day; with no
> insurance a patient could spend a week or more in a hospital, be
> treated substandardly and die due to complications or hospital aquired
> infection (County has an especially nasty MRSA that pops up every now
> and then). Convicts often recieve better treatment than the uninsured
> American.

>  Your mother was right to tell you to always have clean underware in
> case you're in an accident, clean underware is always a plus. More
> importantly is the type of insurance. People die every day due to a
> lack of insurance.

> On Jan 29, 5:11 pm, "Jack G." <jgran...@pioneernet.net> wrote:

> > On Jan 29, 1:03 pm, "GeorgeWashingtonAdmi...@adelphia.com"

> > <guybanniste...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > Excerpt:

> > >   "It's for the children: unfortunately not YOUR children ...

> > >   "Yes, America has a soft spot in its heart for Children,
> > > Firefighters, Nurses and Bambi. But how these iconic images are
> > > manipulated to direct funding decisions, union affairs and political
> > > actions is often as shameful as it is misleading.

> > >   "At a time when our healthcare infrastructure is crumbling under the
> > > assault of illegal aliens who use emergency rooms as their primary
> > > care facilities and are overburdening our hospital’s maternity rooms
> > > in the quest to create “anchor” babies, someone must make some
> > > rational decisions.
> > > January 29, 2009

> > >   "Consider for a moment the following story …

> > >   'Ana Puente was an infant with a liver disorder when her aunt
> > > brought her illegally to the U.S. to seek medical care. She underwent
> > > two liver transplants at UCLA Medical Center as a child in 1989 and a
> > > third in 1998, each paid for by the state.'

> > >   'But when Puente turned 21 last June, she aged out of her state-
> > > funded health insurance and was unable to continue treatment at UCLA.'

> > >   'This year, her liver began failing again and she was hospitalized
> > > at County-USC Medical Center. In her Medi-Cal application, a USC
> > > doctor wrote, ‘Her current clinical course is irreversible,
> > > progressive and will lead to death without another liver transplant.’
> > > The application was denied. The county gave her medication but does
> > > not have the resources to perform transplants.'

> > >   'Late last month Puente learned of another, little-known option for
> > > patients with certain healthcare needs. If she notified U.S.
> > > Citizenship and Immigration Services that she was in the country
> > > illegally, state health officials might grant her full Medi-Cal
> > > coverage. Puente did so, her benefits were restored and she is now
> > > awaiting a fourth transplant at UCLA' ...

> > > Read the full article at:http://www.onecitizenspeaking.com/2009/01/its-for-the-children-unfort...

> > This is one reason California has gone into the tank.
> > Most working poor in California who pay taxes are now last in line to
> > get Medi-Cal.
> > Is this the change we voted for?- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> I couldn't live in California b/c of liberal services like this to
> the illegals. It's a gorgeous state and I loved living there when
> I did, but it's over-run with too many illegals ruining the state
> services.

> On , , Sun, 1 Feb 2009 07:26:49 -0800 (PST), Re: INSANITY ... OR
> TREASON?: Bankrupt California vows, "You'll get  free 4th liver
> tran$plant ONLY if you're an ILLEGAL ALIEN", Charlie

> <cvarric...@aol.com> wrote:
> >wanting a better life, not me.  As for the druggies and gang members
> >what they should do is round up the ones in prison, the ones that are
> >in for life and take them up in an Airplane and fly over the ocean and
> >open the door and push out every last goddam one of them.  That would
> >solve prison overcrowding.

> That is what Argentina did, they started with the criminals and
> prisoners and found it solved their problems so well they started on
> the protesters and anyone who defied the government line. I worked
> with a guy who left Argentina before it could be done to him. He was
> just an ordinary guy, nothing too radical or any kind of "wing". He
> taught art and had a MA in Fine Arts.

> On Jan 31, 3:53 pm,robbielynn<robbielynnw...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > On Jan 29, 5:11 pm, "Jack G." <jgran...@pioneernet.net> wrote:

> > > On Jan 29, 1:03 pm, "GeorgeWashingtonAdmi...@adelphia.com"

> > > <guybanniste...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > Excerpt:

> > > >   "It's for the children: unfortunately not YOUR children ...

> > > >   "Yes, America has a soft spot in its heart for Children,
> > > > Firefighters, Nurses and Bambi. But how these iconic images are
> > > > manipulated to direct funding decisions, union affairs and political
> > > > actions is often as shameful as it is misleading.

> > > >   "At a time when our healthcare infrastructure is crumbling under the
> > > > assault of illegal aliens who use emergency rooms as their primary
> > > > care facilities and are overburdening our hospital’s maternity rooms
> > > > in the quest to create “anchor” babies, someone must make some
> > > > rational decisions.
> > > > January 29, 2009

> > > >   "Consider for a moment the following story …

> > > >   'Ana Puente was an infant with a liver disorder when her aunt
> > > > brought her illegally to the U.S. to seek medical care. She underwent
> > > > two liver transplants at UCLA Medical Center as a child in 1989 and a
> > > > third in 1998, each paid for by the state.'

> > > >   'But when Puente turned 21 last June, she aged out of her state-
> > > > funded health insurance and was unable to continue treatment at UCLA.'

> > > >   'This year, her liver began failing again and she was hospitalized
> > > > at County-USC Medical Center. In her Medi-Cal application, a USC
> > > > doctor wrote, ‘Her current clinical course is irreversible,
> > > > progressive and will lead to death without another liver transplant.’
> > > > The application was denied. The county gave her medication but does
> > > > not have the resources to perform transplants.'

> > > >   'Late last month Puente learned of another, little-known option for
> > > > patients with certain healthcare needs. If she notified U.S.
> > > > Citizenship and Immigration Services that she was in the country
> > > > illegally, state health officials might grant her full Medi-Cal
> > > > coverage. Puente did so, her benefits were restored and she is now
> > > > awaiting a fourth transplant at UCLA' ...

> > > > Read the full article at:http://www.onecitizenspeaking.com/2009/01/its-for-the-children-unfort...

> > > This is one reason California has gone into the tank.
> > > Most working poor in California who pay taxes are now last in line to
> > > get Medi-Cal.
> > > Is this the change we voted for?- Hide quoted text -

> > > - Show quoted text -

> > I couldn't live in California b/c of liberal services like this to
> > the illegals. It's a gorgeous state and I loved living there when
> > I did, but it's over-run with too many illegals ruining the state
> > services.

> Robbielynnyou're so correct.  It's a true shame.  I have written in a
> few posts about my mother in law being an elementary school principal
> in Placentia (Orange County) for almost 20 years.  Her and my father
> in law were transplants to that area from Pittsburgh due to Gulf Oil
> being bought out be Chevron in the mid 80's.  It was cultural shock
> for her because in Pittsburgh you didn't have many illegals at all
> attending elementary schools.  In Placentia she told me at least
> 30-40% were illegals.  There education was free as was their health
> care if they were deemed too poor to pay for it.  When one thinks of
> all the gang violence in California which is plenty in the mexican
> community or any other community where illegals live think of all the
> police protection that needs to be hired.  Think of all the health
> care that taxes have to pay for.  As for me I wouldn't begrudge free
> health care to those in need...my conscience wouldn't allow it.  But
> what do you do to insure the poor or illegals receive fair
> treatment....do we keep bleeding the middle class to pay for it?  I
> haven't the answer because I don' t live in California.  From what I
> understand more and more white flight to states like Oregon, Nevada
> and Idaho are taking place everyday.  Retirees are leaving and going
> to those states as well as places like Arizona and Colorado as well.
> I think it will only get worse in California.  Having said that the
> vast majority of illegals are good hard working people trying to make
> a life for themselves and their families.  Who can blame them for
> wanting a better life, not me.  As for the druggies and gang members
> what they should do is round up the ones in prison, the ones that are
> in for life and take them up in an Airplane and fly over the ocean and
> open the door and push out every last goddam one of them.  That would
> solve prison overcrowding.- Hide quoted text -

> - Show quoted text -

> On Feb 1, 10:26 am, Charlie <cvarric...@aol.com> wrote:

> > On Jan 31, 3:53 pm,robbielynn<robbielynnw...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > On Jan 29, 5:11 pm, "Jack G." <jgran...@pioneernet.net> wrote:

> > > > On Jan 29, 1:03 pm, "GeorgeWashingtonAdmi...@adelphia.com"

> > > > <guybanniste...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > Excerpt:

> > > > >   "It's for the children: unfortunately not YOUR children ...

> > > > >   "Yes, America has a soft spot in its heart for Children,
> > > > > Firefighters, Nurses and Bambi. But how these iconic images are
> > > > > manipulated to direct funding decisions, union affairs and political
> > > > > actions is often as shameful as it is misleading.

> > > > >   "At a time when our healthcare infrastructure is crumbling under the
> > > > > assault of illegal aliens who use emergency rooms as their primary
> > > > > care facilities and are overburdening our hospital’s maternity rooms
> > > > > in the quest to create “anchor” babies, someone must make some
> > > > > rational decisions.
> > > > > January 29, 2009

> > > > >   "Consider for a moment the following story …

> > > > >   'Ana Puente was an infant with a liver disorder when her aunt
> > > > > brought her illegally to the U.S. to seek medical care. She underwent
> > > > > two liver transplants at UCLA Medical Center as a child in 1989 and a
> > > > > third in 1998, each paid for by the state.'

> > > > >   'But when Puente turned 21 last June, she aged out of her state-
> > > > > funded health insurance and was unable to continue treatment at UCLA.'

> > > > >   'This year, her liver began failing again and she was hospitalized
> > > > > at County-USC Medical Center. In her Medi-Cal application, a USC
> > > > > doctor wrote, ‘Her current clinical course is irreversible,
> > > > > progressive and will lead to death without another liver transplant.’
> > > > > The application was denied. The county gave her medication but does
> > > > > not have the resources to perform transplants.'

> > > > >   'Late last month Puente learned of another, little-known option for
> > > > > patients with certain healthcare needs. If she notified U.S.
> > > > > Citizenship and Immigration Services that she was in the country
> > > > > illegally, state health officials might grant her full Medi-Cal
> > > > > coverage. Puente did so, her benefits were restored and she is now
> > > > > awaiting a fourth transplant at UCLA' ...

> > > > > Read the full article at:http://www.onecitizenspeaking.com/2009/01/its-for-the-children-unfort...

> > > > This is one reason California has gone into the tank.
> > > > Most working poor in California who pay taxes are now last in line to
> > > > get Medi-Cal.
> > > > Is this the change we voted for?- Hide quoted text -

> > > > - Show quoted text -

> > > I couldn't live in California b/c of liberal services like this to
> > > the illegals. It's a gorgeous state and I loved living there when
> > > I did, but it's over-run with too many illegals ruining the state
> > > services.

> > Robbielynnyou're so correct.  It's a true shame.  I have written in a
> > few posts about my mother in law being an elementary school principal
> > in Placentia (Orange County) for almost 20 years.  Her and my father
> > in law were transplants to that area from Pittsburgh due to Gulf Oil
> > being bought out be Chevron in the mid 80's.  It was cultural shock
> > for her because in Pittsburgh you didn't have many illegals at all
> > attending elementary schools.  In Placentia she told me at least
> > 30-40% were illegals.  There education was free as was their health
> > care if they were deemed too poor to pay for it.  When one thinks of
> > all the gang violence in California which is plenty in the mexican
> > community or any other community where illegals live think of all the
> > police protection that needs to be hired.  Think of all the health
> > care that taxes have to pay for.  As for me I wouldn't begrudge free
> > health care to those in need...my conscience wouldn't allow it.  But
> > what do you do to insure the poor or illegals receive fair
> > treatment....do we keep bleeding the middle class to pay for it?  I
> > haven't the answer because I don' t live in California.  From what I
> > understand more and more white flight to states like Oregon, Nevada
> > and Idaho are taking place everyday.  Retirees are leaving and going
> > to those states as well as places like Arizona and Colorado as well.
> > I think it will only get worse in California.  Having said that the
> > vast majority of illegals are good hard working people trying to make
> > a life for themselves and their families.  Who can blame them for
> > wanting a better life, not me.  As for the druggies and gang members
> > what they should do is round up the ones in prison, the ones that are
> > in for life and take them up in an Airplane and fly over the ocean and
> > open the door and push out every last goddam one of them.  That would
> > solve prison overcrowding.- Hide quoted text -

> > - Show quoted text -

> Interesting post.  I bet yourMIL was shocked. I was shocked by the
> legal kids there. They were smart asses and had  bad attitudes.

> A lot of californians did move to the northwest which drove up
> real estate there. I wonder how they took all that rain, quite a
> different place but more civil and well managed than Cal.

> I don't know the solution for all the crime and gang warfare.
> This country is sliding downhill if you ask me and I have
> contemplated moving abroad. I was in Rome a couple of
> years ago and some Italina guy stopped me and my husband
> to tell us they have a lot of the same problems that we have. He
> was talking about problems related to immigration.

> England has the same problems.

> It's fine if we allow people to come here and work but
> what about giving our own citizens the first opportunities.
> Too many are here for hand-outs.

> Have you watched that show on Monday nights on
> ABC.."Homeland Security"? It's very eye opening
> and
> real coverage of how our border patrols work to
> control the criminals trying to smuggle drugs , etc.
> into our country.

> Robbielynn

Crannie wrote:
> RIGHT.

> First, you're advised to sit down ... then ...

> Take a look at the picture ...

> Then, either weep or laugh at the incompetence and wastefulness of
> your federal procurement personnel.

> And we wonder why we're in the Great Bush Depression.

> ------------------
> "Marines' New Ride Rolls Out Years Late"

> By Walter Pincus
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Tuesday, February 3, 2009; A04

> The Marine Corps is starting to deploy a jeeplike vehicle called the
> Growler, 10 years after conception and at twice the contract price,
> after delays that were caused by changing concepts and problems in
> contracting, development and testing, according to two reports.

> Sen. Carl M. Levin (D-Mich.), chairman of the Senate Armed Services
> Committee, sought investigations by the Government Accountability
> Office and the Defense Department inspector general in light of
> complaints by the unsuccessful bidder on the project.

> But a spokesman for Levin said the inspector general's report,
> released last month, showed that cost increases and delays are so
> normal in defense contracting, particularly in contracts involving
> hundreds of millions of dollars, that they don't raise great concerns.

> Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, however, stressed the importance of
> reforming procurement in remarks before the Senate Armed Services
> Committee last week, saying that all services are feeling the effects
> of weapons programs that have "had repeated -- and unacceptable --
> problems with requirements, schedule, cost and performance."

> The idea for such a vehicle was developed in 1999 by the Marine Corps,
> which wanted a vehicle that could be carried in the V-22 Osprey
> aircraft to support assault operations and that would tow a 120mm
> mortar and an ammunition trailer.

> Today, instead of one vehicle that could serve both functions, there
> are two -- one for reconnaissance and a shorter version that tows the
> mortar and ammunition trailer -- built by the same company.

> The first Growlers in the mortar program -- officially called
> internally transportable vehicles, or ITVs -- have been deployed to
> Marine units, but with limited combat capabilities. Because of their
> light armor and ammunition safety problems, "you can't run it up the
> highway in an urban area such as Iraq," said John Garner, the Marines'
> program manager for the vehicle. "But it could accompany foot-mobile
> Marine infantry in a not-built-up area such as Afghanistan," he added.

> The inspector general report said that the average cost of a single
> Growler has risen 120 percent, from about $94,000 when the contract
> was awarded in 2004 to $209,000 in 2008. The unit cost for the vehicle
> with mortar and ammunition trailer has grown 86 percent, from $579,000
> to $1,078,000.

> The first six mortar and ammunition systems have been sent to Marine
> units, as have about 20 ITVs. "It is up to unit commanders who receive
> them as to whether they will take them when deployed abroad," Garner
> said.

> The Army has 81 ITVs under contract and is awaiting bids on 70 more;
> there are 12 mortar and ammunition trailer systems under contract and
> 20 more out for bids, according to Garner.

> Troubles with the two systems started in 2004 during the final
> competition between two bidders for the vehicle contract. One bidder
> was a team of the giant defense contractor General Dynamics Corp. and
> a small company called American Growler Inc. of Ocala, Fla., known
> primarily for building a successful dune buggy using surplus,
> customized Army M151A2s, a popular version of the military jeep. The
> other was a contractor in Michigan called Rae-Beck Automotive LLC,
> which built a popular neighborhood electric car.

> By choosing General Dynamics and American Growler, the Marines were
> able to procure an existing vehicle that was equipped with components
> that could be purchased "off the shelf," avoiding costs of research
> and developing an entirely new vehicle. While the Rae-Beck entry was
> found to be superior in some tests, the Growler, according to Garner,
> was better "in the most important ones."

> But after the contract was awarded, Garner said, "there were
> significant additions made for capability." For example, an air
> suspension had to be added to allow the Growler to get on and off the
> Osprey because it could raise and lower its height. The makers added a
> new cooling system, power steering and power brakes, along with a
> beefed-up General Motors engine similar to the one used in the GMC
> Yukon. Altogether, Garner said, about $50,000 of the cost growth was
> in additional off-the-shelf items that now permit the Growler to
> travel up to 45 mph on a highway.

> Testing from 2005 to 2007 continued to find problems, and it was not
> until 2008 that the Growler met all requirements. Because the Osprey
> itself had developmental problems, delays did not harm Marine
> operational plans, according to the GAO report.

> The Pentagon inspector general's report said that awarding the
> contract in November 2004 to Growler was not "in accordance with the
> Federal Acquisition Regulation." At issue, however, were technical
> details about what the important criteria were.

> The history of the Growler problems are public because Rae-Beck
> complained to Levin, prompting the investigations. Another
> investigation, by the Marine Corps inspector general in 2005, looked
> into an anonymous complaint of a conflict of interest in the contract
> award because one of the principals in the Growler company, Curtis
> "Terry" Crews, was a retired Marine Corps colonel. The investigation
> concluded there was no evidence that anything improper occurred.

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/02/AR200...