God's Creator <Why_Are_G...@Always.Bro.ke> wrote in
news:ipednXxzotl34rDZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@comcast.com:

I used to stay awake at night pondering what was at the end of forever. I
decided that the universe that resulted from the Big Bang is but an
infinitesimal part of the whole. It made even more sense after I read The
Five Ages of the Universe by University of Michigan physicist Fred Adams
and NASA astronomer Greg Laughlin. Here is a web site about it. I think
they might be onto something:
http://www.fathom.com/course/10701055/index.html

-phy

It's hard to know what that question means.  Beautiful image, though.

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:15:18 -0800, God's Creator
<Why_Are_G...@Always.Bro.ke> wrote in
<ipednXxzotl34rDZnZ2dnUVZ_sidn...@comcast.com>
in alt.sci.physics:

Let's see:
The Creator of everything is defined as "God".
Therefore God does not have a creator, since if
he did, he would not be God.

So who the hell are you?
[smile]

It is. It's called the Hubble Deep Field. It was taken
by the Hubble Space Telescope and based on the spectral
shifts of some of the galaxies, shows galaxies that are
about 10-13 billion light-years away. Thus the universe
must be at least that old.

The point to the picture is that real science tends to
be surprising to the point that it shows the unexpected
to scientists and how stupid anti-science really is.

[...]

I don't care what you give; what's your point?

--
// The TimeLord says:
// Pogo 2.0 = We have met the aliens, and they are us!

Just saw the following at www.whatreallyhappened.com

ISRAEL RULES AMERICA!:

http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=50453

   Y'know I wonder. I remember back in 2001 when a lot on the right
thought Bush was too chicken to go into Iraq.  I think the president's
purpose in Iraq is honorable and I support it, but sometimes I myself
wonder if its isn't just plain unachievable.  (The thing that keeps me
on his side is I realise that the alternative to what we are doing in
Iraq is a longer term war, cold or hot, with one quarter of the earth,
meaning Islam. I have my doubts we can turn the Islamic world around,
but I hope we can because I really don't want to characterise one
quarter of humanity as inherently evil no matter how nutty their faith
is.)  I am NOT one of those who believe Bush was ready to go into Iraq
from the get go. However, the MILITARY ALWAYS had plans to take
Saddam.  And sometimes plans on the shelf have a life of their
own. You keep presenting them and they seem more credible. It's called
misison creep. It happened in Vietnam.  OSS agent Archimedes Patti
invented Ho Chi Min against Japan.  TR was overjoyed when Japan did to
Russian Port Arthur what they eventually did to Pearl Harbor.  I mean
the equivalent of Cambodia and Laos is Syria and Iran.

                                - = -
    Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
              BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
       http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
  ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice.  Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
   [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]

 "I do follow all the commandments already but what must I do to go to
heaven?"  and Jesus answered "You must give everything you own to the
poor and follow me" and the rich man turned away.

What Is Wrong With Capitalism (ie conservatism)
- by Stewart Connor  4/13/05

Capitalism has a broken concept at its core.  But it is a concept that
just about everyone has decided is the truth. The concept is
"expediency"... "might makes right"...  "nice guys finish last"... "The
reason people obey the laws of man is because society will throw them
in jail if they dont"...etc.

These  are all misunderstandings.

As a result of all these misunderstandings people go along even though
they see there is something vastly wrong... this is where  expressions
like: "Elephant in the room that everyone is pretending is not there."
Or "The emperor has no clothes" are coming from.

Capitalism, the fundamental thing that keeps people resigned to it is:
"Nice guys finish last" so lets put a BAD GUY IN CHARGE.  Let all the
power be given to the greedy so that they wont have to worry about that
and then we can be on their side... ie "the winner's side."  Let the
Bad guy run it all, since he is going to win anyway... GIVE THE DEVIL
HIS DUE  -->  MAKE SATAN KING!!!

Now this situation has been handed down to us over the centuries... the
fight between the have nots and haves is not new. And in all the
legends of heroes that have lasted, legends from Zorro, to Robin Hood,
to George Lucas's Star Wars et al. it is the little guys over coming
the big greedy (corporate) monsters that all people love... even rich
people love these underdogs who represent the Good Guy in the "Battle
between Good and Evil" because deep in their hearts they want to be the
"good guy" too. As a result however,  the existing powers that be,  the
"corporate" elites have always recognized the dangers to the very core
of their philosphy of greed which is in control of the masses.

ENTER the beginning founders of COMMUNISM ... Karl Marx et al. They
came up with a theory of sharing all wealth: eg "From each according to
his ability unto each according to his need"-- a defining phrase of the
core meaning of the philosophy of Communism-- however average people
not familiar with the history have often been polled as to where they
think this famous phrase is found the majority say "The Bible"!!!

Marx was no genius of politics... nor were most people back in those
days... he had a simple idea that in order to end war and be fair to
all men that all wealth should be shared.

The problem is that this is an extremely POWERFUL IDEA and RIGHT AWAY
THE CORPORATE ELITES OF CAPITALISM RECOGNIZED THAT THIS IDEA WAS ALONE
THE SINGLE BIGGEST THREAT TO THEM!!!

Thus Karl Marx and others had no idea the Pandora's Box he had opened.
For instance in the 1950's in the United States,  due to the
Brainwashing of all the citizens (note not all people fall for this
stuff but those in power WHO PAY OTHERS THEIR WAGES, DEMAND THAT THOSE
WORKING FOR THEM RENOUNCE AND DECLARE THEY HATE THE IDEA OF
COMMUNISM... Since most of these people have no idea what Communism is
they have no problem renouncing it.... IT is like going up to someone
who has never heard of God and telling them that you will pay them as
long as they tell you they dont believe in God.)  ... the 1950's in
america had the single biggest (perhaps until today with W Bush)
embarrassment exposing the crooks at the heart of U.S. government.

However Marx, thinking that the beauty of his idea of all men being
brothers and sharing all the wealth was all that was needed,  DID NOT
KNOW THAT HE HAD FOCUSSED ALL THE FEAR AND HATRED OF THE CORPORATE
ELITES ON THAT SINGLE IDEA.

Marx could not understand why people were not just accepting his right
idea and turning away from the old concept of "each man for himself law
of the jungle(the underlying idea of capitalism: ie capitalists think
that people must be punished and that is the only way to stop crime...
but to this day most criminals never get caught... Just look in the
whitehouse at the guys who took the world to war based on the lie of
WMD's)

One of the biggest methods used to brainwash people is superstition.
The messages of Jesus,  though even deeper than Karl Marx's idea,  are
not against Communism...

Rather it is the Perversions of Religion,  perversions used to keep
people in fear of God rather than loving God,  IT IS THESE PERVERSIONS
OF JESUS'S MESSAGE ... SUPERSTITION!!!.. THAT ARE USED TO MANIPULATE
PEOPLE... THE CORPORATE ELITES KNOW THIS AND HAVE EXTREME INFLUENCE
OVER THE SUPERSTITIOUS MESSAGE BEING PUSHED ON PEOPLE FROM THE
PULPIT--- not all Christian Religion is a perversion of Jesus's message
ONLY THOSE THAT PROMOTE HATE FEAR VENGENCE MATERIALISM etc.... ie this
is most preaching to some degree.

The perversion of the Christian(and other religions which are used in
the same way... SUPERSTITION)  message is what frustrated Karl Marx in
his efforts to spread the idea of "sharing all wealth with all people."

 Karl Marx at one point said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" The
powers with all the money, with an established order of CLASS BASED ON
MONEY are sorely afraid of this idea of Communism... they of course
then twisted what Marx meant by his utterance about how religion is
used as a SUPERSTITION TO MANIPULATE IGNORANT PEOPLE to say that Marx
was against the Christianity ... but as I have explained COMMUNISM IS
IN FACT A CORE IDEA OF CHRISTIANITY... THE APOSTLES WERE THE FIRST
COMMUNISTS... THEY SHARED ALL MONEY AND WEALTH IN A COMMUNAL LIFE.

The blind hatred of Communism is thus promoted in the Captilast led
countries... and it must be pointed out as well that even countries
that claim to be "Communist" are not... they are simply societies whose
leaders used the beauty of the idea of communism to hypnotize followers
into rebellions in order that dictatorships could be established...
they then maintain leadership claiming they are communist when they are
not(they are just another mask of the CAPITALIST IDEA. THOSE WITH THE
MONEY BEING THOSE WHO ARE TRYING NOT TO SHARE THEIR WEALTH...thus they
become dictatorships... this is a large degree an explanation of what
is going on in China and why the US Corporate-Elites are now getting
along so well with China even though they used to claim China was the
Evil COMMUNISM  it never was Communist only a dictatorship)... this is
true of all countries that claim they are communist.... though some are
less of a perversion of communism than others.

But in the USA the blind hatred of the IDEA OF COMMUNISM was pounded
into american youth from early ages... Of course large segments of
these same children are aware enough to recognise when the system is
trying to brainwash them...for some this even has the reverse effect of
making them study the idea in depth... FOR MOST OF THE YOUNG IT JUST
LEADS TO DEEP CYNICISM OF ALL THINGS THEY SEE IN THE CORRUPT
GOVERNMENT!!! but they are too lazy to look deepy at some of the things
I am talking about here.

This hatred and fear of the idea of COMMUNISM led to the clearly
hypocritcal rise in the McArthyism politics of the 1950's McArthy and
the FBI et al were clearly the real criminals and the public saw this
in overwhelming images... LIARS WERE RUNNING THE SHOW in the US,
"patriotism was a sham"... ie this is a fundamental truth of a
capitalist controlled society that the CORPORATE-ELITES DONT WANT TO
LET PEOPLE KNOW SINCE THEY USE THESE METHODS "Patriotism" and
"Religion"TO MANIPULATE THE MASSES... so McArthyism quickly (quick in
termsof the grand scale of  social change) McArthyism quickly died.

SO WHAT IS WRONG WITH CAPITALISM???
READ AGAIN WHAT I HAVE SAID...
... CAPITALISM IS WHAT IS THE BAD GUY IN THIS BRIEF HISTORY.

But the idea of just becoming COMMUNIST clearly is abused as well...
thus all countries claiming they are "Communist" are nothing more than
dictatorships... dictatorships that were put in power by hyponotizing
people into rebellions motivated and manipulated by the BEAUTY OF THE
IDEA OF COMMUNISM. (in a similar way Bush manipulates people to follow
him by manipulating and perverting the beautiful and powerful idea of
Christianity... until what Bush is peddling is the exact oppostie of
Christianity)

Thus the ideas of Freedom that the US Pilgrims and Settlers came to
amercia to find (Communism would not be invented for a few hundred
years later)  needs to embrace the BEAUTY OF THE IDEA OF COMMUNISM  ...
COMMUNISM IN THE IDEAL IS A CHRISTIAN WAY OF LIFE!!!

This is why the idea of Socialism came to be(and also why the CORPORATE
ELITES FEAR SOCIALISM EVEN MORE THAN COMMUNISM) Socialism is an attempt
to bring the idea of sharing of wealth into the captialist controlled
government without a rebellion but simply using the aparatus of the
existing government... BUT MAKING THAT EXISTING GOVERNMENT BE HONEST...
When that government claims it is FOR THE PEOPLE... then socialism
says: "Well lets make sure you are FOR THE PEOPLE ... AND NOT THAT YOU
ARE LYING AND REALLY FOR THE COPRPORATE WEALTHY CONTROLLERS WHO HAVE
ALWAYS MAINTAINED CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT."

What is wrong with Capitalism is that these Rich Privileged wont
comprehend that their belief that they must maintain this state is
hurting them as much as it hurts us all.... Recall that parable of
Jesus to the rich man who said to Jesus "I do follow all the
commandments already but what must I do to go to heaven?"  and Jesus
answered "You must give everything you own to the poor and follow me"
and the rich man turned away.

(see all of Harry Hope's excellent posts as they break, put this link
in your browser, use it, this is a search on google groups, on the
author Harry Hope sorted by date... nothing fancy):
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&start=0&scoring=d&enc_author=-nIhF...

Keeping It Quiet: The Israel Lobby's Crushing of Dissent:

http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=8791

U.S. Middle East policy motivated by pro-Israel lobby

http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=49800

Check out the upcoming meeting of Israel firsters on Iran at AEI in
D.C. with JINSA/PNAC Neocon Richard Perle and the head of JINSA (Morris
Amitay) posted on page 8 of the 'Comments' of the following URL - check
out page 9 as well:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/04/01/iraq-may-be-escalating-t_n_1...

Government in secret talks about strike against Iran

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/02/wiran...

( 02/04/2006)

The Government is to hold secret talks with defence chiefs tomorrow to
discuss possible military strikes against Iran.

A high-level meeting will take place in the Ministry of Defence at
which senior defence chiefs and government officials will consider the
consequences of an attack on Iran.
It is believed that an American-led attack, designed to destroy Iran's
ability to develop a nuclear bomb, is "inevitable" if Teheran's leaders
fail to comply with United Nations demands to freeze their uranium
enrichment programme.

A high-level meeting will take place in the Ministry of Defence
Tomorrow's meeting will be attended by Gen Sir Michael Walker, the
chief of the defence staff, Lt Gen Andrew Ridgway, the chief of defence
intelligence and Maj Gen Bill Rollo, the assistant chief of the general
staff, together with officials from the Foreign Office and Downing
Street.
The International Atomic Energy Authority, the nuclear watchdog,
believes that much of Iran's programme is now devoted to uranium
enrichment and plutonium separation, technologies that could provide
material for nuclear bombs to be developed in the next three years.
The United States government is hopeful that the military operation
will be a multinational mission, but defence chiefs believe that the
Bush administration is prepared to launch the attack on its own or with
the assistance of Israel, if there is little international support.
British military chiefs believe an attack would be limited to a series
of air strikes against nuclear plants - a land assault is not being
considered at the moment.
But confirmation that Britain has started contingency planning will
undermine the claim last month by Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary,
that a military attack against Iran was "inconceivable".
Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, insisted, during a visit
to Blackburn yesterday, that all negotiating options - including the
use of force - remained open in an attempt to resolve the crisis.

General Sir Michael Walker
Tactical Tomahawk cruise missiles fired from US navy ships and
submarines in the Gulf would, it is believed, target Iran's air defence
systems at the nuclear installations.
That would enable attacks by B2 stealth bombers equipped with eight
4,500lb enhanced BLU-28 satellite-guided bunker-busting bombs, flying
from Diego Garcia, the isolated US Navy base in the Indian Ocean, RAF
Fairford in Gloucestershire and Whiteman USAF base in Missouri.
It is understood that any direct British involvement in an attack would
be limited but may extend to the use of the RAF's highly secret
airborne early warning aircraft.
At the centre of the crisis is Washington's fear that an Iranian
nuclear weapon could be used against Israel or US forces in the region,
such as the American air base at Incirlik in Turkey.
The UN also believes that the production of a bomb could also lead to
further destabilisation in the Middle East, which would result in
Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia all developing nuclear weapons
programmes.

Click to enlarge
A senior Foreign Office source said: "Monday's meeting will set out to
address the consequences for Britain in the event of an attack against
Iran. The CDS [chiefs of defence staff] will want to know what the
impact will be on British interests in Iraq and Afghanistan which both
border Iran. The CDS will then brief the Prime Minister and the Cabinet
on their conclusions in the next few days.
"If Iran makes another strategic mistake, such as ignoring demands by
the UN or future resolutions, then the thinking among the chiefs is
that military action could be taken to bring an end to the crisis. The
belief in some areas of Whitehall is that an attack is now all but
inevitable.
There will be no invasion of Iran but the nuclear sites will be
destroyed. This is not something that will happen imminently, maybe
this year, maybe next year. Jack Straw is making exactly the same
noises that the Government did in March 2003 when it spoke about the
likelihood of a war in Iraq.
"Then the Government said the war was neither inevitable or imminent
and then attacked."
The source said that the Israeli attack against Iraq's Osirak nuclear
reactor in 1981 proved that a limited operation was the best military
option.
The Israeli air force launched raids against the plant, which
intelligence suggested was being used to develop a nuclear bomb for use
against Israel.
Military chiefs also plan tomorrow to discuss fears that an attack
within Iran will "unhinge" southern Iraq - where British troops are
based - an area mainly populated by Shia Muslims who have strong
political and religious links to Iran.
They are concerned that this could delay any withdrawal of troops this
year or next. There could also be consequences for British and US
troops in Afghanistan, which borders Iran.
The MoD meeting will address the economic issues that could arise if
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president - who became the subject of
international condemnation last year when he called for Israel to be
"wiped off the map" - cuts off oil supplies to the West in reprisal.

There are thought to be at least eight known sites within Iran involved
in the production of nuclear materials, although it is generally
accepted that there are many more secret installations.
Iran has successfully tested a Fajr-3 missile that can reach Israel,
avoiding radar and hitting several targets using multiple warheads, its
military has confirmed.
21 March 2006: Bush warns Iran: don't touch our ally Israel
14 March 2006: Bush ready to initiate 'regime change' for the mullahs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------

Keeping It Quiet: The Israel Lobby's Crushing of Dissent:

http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=8791

U.S. Middle East policy motivated by pro-Israel lobby:

http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=49800

Check out the meeting of Israel firsters on Iran at AEI with JINSA/PNAC
Neocon Richard Perle and the head of JINSA (Morris Amitay) posted on
page 8 of the 'Comments' of the following URL - check out page 9 as
well:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/04/01/iraq-may-be-escalating-t_n_1...

On 2 Apr 2006 05:31:33 -0700, "dontcowerfromthetruth"

Its hardly secret if its in the Telegraph

The Nimrod, one of the longest kept secrets still flying.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/nimrodr1.html
--
Jim Watt          
http://www.gibnet.com

Thanks for the URL...

Attacking Iranian Nuclear Sites May Trigger Terrorism In Response:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/04/02/attacking-iranian-nuclear_n_...

Check out the lead in write-up at the beginning of the following URL by
General Jim David whose name is mentioned on the cover of the third
edition of Paul Findley's 'They Dare to Speak Out' book about the
power/influence of the pro-Israel lobby:

http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=50541

Paid $200M, U.S. Contractor Fails To Complete 122 Of 142 Health Clinics
In Iraq...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/04/02/paid-200m-us-contract_n_1835...

Who will win tonight?: UCLA or Florida (UCLA, of course!:):

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/5465858?GT1=8021