SFOR is disgracing and shaming us again in BiH..!
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SFOR is disgracing and shaming us again in BiH..!  
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1.  ESLaPorte  
Ver perfil   Traduzir para Traduzido (ver original)
 Mais opções 1 abr 2004, 12:25
Grupos de notícias: alt.military.uk, can.community.military, us.military.army, alt.military.police, alt.military, us.military.national-guard, us.military.navy
De: "ESLaPorte" <eslapo...@pronato.com>
Data: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:25:57 GMT
Local: Qui 1 abr 2004 12:25
Assunto: SFOR is disgracing and shaming us again in BiH..!
*Well - the mindless, stormtroopers of SFOR are at  it again in BiH! For
starters, what SFOR does in the name of our beloved NATO - also "for the
Atlantic Community" -  is disgraceful! First of all, this Author is not
"pro-Serb," "pro-Russian" - but pro-Atlantic Community and especially
pro-North Atlantic Treaty. What SFOR does in BiH, espically in the town of
Pale, is to spit on the North Atlantic Treaty and SFOR needs to stop calling
itself part of NATO. I have stopped, for a long time, concidering SFOR as
part of NATO, and therefore associated with the North Atlantic Treaty. This
Author no longer associates SFOR with our beloved NATO Alliance and
therefore with the North Atlantic Treaty and the Atlantic Community!

Our Atlantic Alliance and the North Atlantic Treaty should not be dragged
down to the gutter level that SFOR drags them down to!

Second - the North Atlantic Treaty is for the Bosnian Serbs, just as it is
for Czechs, Poles and Croats, and all peoples.  There are those who are
working to bring the Serbian people, as well as Russian, to the place where
they are allies of the Atlantic Community and NATO... The actions of SFOR
trounce the spirit of the North Atlantic Treaty and cause unnecessary
setbacks in bringing the Serbian people to the Atlantic Community and the
Serbian people's rightfully place in being associated with the North
Atlantic Treaty.

Third - this notion the Serbia cannot be associated with NATO and the
Atlantic Community until two war criminals are produced CHEAPENS our North
Atlantic Treaty and Atlantic Community. The North Atlantic Treaty, its
priciples, values and purposes, are of greater value that two war criminals.
Our North Atlantic Treaty and association to our NATO and the Atlantic
Community should not be sold for that cheap!

SFOR is utterly shameful and disgraceful to us all in the Atlantic
Community...

Erin LaPorte
The NATO Citizen - www.pronato.com
P.O. Box 371162
Milwaukee, Wisconsin - USA
"Long live the entangling Alliance!"
53237-2062
NATO Allied Force forum
http://pub22.bravenet.com/forum/1831421237/

----
Bullets fly as NATO troops carry out operation against war crimes suspect in
Bosnia

The Associated Press
March 31, 2004, Wednesday, BC cycle

 By RADUL RADOVANOVIC, Associated Press Writer

PALE, Bosnia-Herzegovina
Gunfire and an explosion resounded early Thursday as NATO troops surrounded
a building in Pale, the city where top war crimes suspect Radovan Karadzic
has taken refuge.

Two helicopters landed in front of the building. Soldiers carried two people
out on stretchers, and the choppers flew off.

Pale is the site of the headquarters of Karadzic, the leader of Bosnia's
Serbs during the republic's ethnic war - Europe's worst bloodshed since
World War II.

He is indicted by the U.N. tribunal in The Hague, Netherlands, on suspicion
of war crimes.

Capt. Dave Sullivan, a spokesman for the NATO-led peacekeeping force in
Bosnia, said it was "an ongoing operation regarding persons indicted for
war-crimes." He refused to go into details beyond saying that American,
British and other international troops were involved.

About 100 residents - some angry, others confused - gathered around the
area, cordoned off by peacekeepers with white tape in the center of Pale,
ends...


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2.  Jonathan Carroll  
Ver perfil   Traduzir para Traduzido (ver original)
 Mais opções 1 abr 2004, 15:31
Grupos de notícias: alt.military.uk, can.community.military, us.military.army, alt.military.police, alt.military, us.military.national-guard, us.military.navy
De: "Jonathan Carroll" <carr...@gotadsl.co.uk>
Data: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:32:42 +0100
Local: Qui 1 abr 2004 15:32
Assunto: Re: SFOR is disgracing and shaming us again in BiH..!
To suggest that an attempt to arrest 2 indviduals, both indicted for mass
murder on a scale that makes 9/11 pale into insignificance, brings either
SFOR or NATO into disrepute is frankly stupid.

If you believe in a defensive alliance, then you must stand by the rule of
law.  That means both following the rule of law yourself and pursuing those
who break it.  How exactly does insisting on obedience to the rule of law
cheapen NATO?

How exactly do the Serbian people have "a right" to be part of NATO?  NATO
is a defensive alliance, a club of like-minded nations - you join by
invitation.

Sorry - can't take you seriously.  Bye Bye.

"ESLaPorte" <eslapo...@pronato.com> wrote in message

news:9wWac.7430$yN6.1213@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...


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3.  David Halpern  
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 Mais opções 2 abr 2004, 07:24
Grupos de notícias: alt.military.uk, can.community.military, us.military.army, alt.military.police, alt.military, us.military.national-guard, us.military.navy
De: "David Halpern" <photonicband...@earthlink.net>
Data: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:24:01 GMT
Local: Sex 2 abr 2004 07:24
Assunto: Re: SFOR is disgracing and shaming us again in BiH..!

"ESLaPorte" <eslapo...@pronato.com> wrote in message

news:9wWac.7430$yN6.1213@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...

Esla how is Arkan?

VIVA  Montenegro Forever :)

D.H.


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NATO supporter would like to say SORRY to Boanian Serbs!  
1.  ESLaPorte  
Ver perfil   Traduzir para Traduzido (ver original)
 Mais opções 1 abr 2004, 13:33
Grupos de notícias: alt.military.uk, can.community.military, us.military.army, alt.military.police, alt.military, us.military.national-guard, us.military.navy
De: "ESLaPorte" <eslapo...@pronato.com>
Data: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:33:15 GMT
Local: Qui 1 abr 2004 13:33
Assunto: NATO supporter would like to say SORRY to Boanian Serbs!
First of all, I am the biggest supporter of the NATO Alliance that can be
found anywhere. I am graduate student of European security studies, mainly
in NATO studies, and I have attended international events with NATO leaders
and I am associated with Atlantic Councils. I am currently involved with
starting a pro-NATO, Atlantic oriented organization for students, and will
be attending "NATOfest" in Norfolk, VA, near  the ACT headquarters later
this month to talk about the organizations that I am associated with. I have
spent several years researching and writing about the North Atlantic Treaty
and the foundations of my beloved NATO Alliance.

Second, I am not Serbian, but we in the Atlantic Community (which produced
the NATO Alliance in 1949), would like to welcome the Serbian peoples of the
Balkans in peace and freedom to our Atlantic Alliance. The Serbian people
are destined to become parties to the North Atlantic Treaty, dispite SFOR
brutality, and that is for certian! Please do not take the disgraceful
actions of SFOR to be represent those of us who are pro-NATO and involved in
transatlantic affairs and Atlantic organizations!!!

Now, as a student and supporter of NATO I have followed the actions of SFOR
for some time and I find them quite disgraceful and shameful, as well as
discusting! The actions of SFOR should not be taken as representative of
what the ALL of us who support our belove NATO Alliance and are patriots of
the Atlantic Alliance.

There are those in NATO and the Atlantic Councils who are trying to bring
the Serbian people into the Atlantic family and into NATO. The actions of
SFOR serves only to set us back in that goal, and I have stated this several
times in faxes to the SecGen's office. The actions of SFOR are contary to
the spirit, values and goals of the North Atlantic Treaty.

The Bosnian Serbs are going to be parties to the North Atlantic Treaty, as
the North Atlantic Treaty is meant for the Bosnian Serbs too. Just what part
of "they desire to live in peace with all people and all governments"
doesn't SFOR understand?!

As a NATO patriot, student of the North Atlantic Treaty and fellow peace and
freedom  loving human being I would like to say "SORRY" to the Bosnian Serbs
on behalf of the people of the Atlantic Community!

Rather than shooting at Bosnian Serbs - we should be passing out the North
Atlantic Treaty in Serbo-Croat to our Serbian friends in Pale!  We involved
in the Atlantic organizations would like to have more Serbian people and
those of Serbian decent involved, but the actions of SFOR make this very
difficult! Serbian people are welcome to the NATO Citizen site as well as to
express their outrage, which I can fax to NATO SecGen and other people in
NATO. I am considering putting together a protest effort through the
Atlantic Councils and the ATA, as well as through other sources, to get SFOR
to stop the brutality and violence against Bosnian Serbs and purge
anti-Serbian bigotry from SFOR enlisted troops.

Please join me !

Erin LaPorte
The NATO Citizen - www.pronato.com
P.O. Box 371162
Milwaukee, Wisconsin - USA
"Long live the entangling Alliance!"
53237-2062
NATO Allied Force forum
http://pub22.bravenet.com/forum/1831421237/


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Letter to SecGen on brutal behavior of SFOR  
1.  ESLaPorte  
Ver perfil   Traduzir para Traduzido (ver original)
 Mais opções 1 abr 2004, 14:30
Grupos de notícias: alt.military.uk, can.community.military, us.military.army, alt.military.police, alt.military, us.military.national-guard, us.military.navy
De: "ESLaPorte" <eslapo...@pronato.com>
Data: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:30:56 GMT
Local: Qui 1 abr 2004 14:30
Assunto: Letter to SecGen on brutal behavior of SFOR
I have just faxed the letter below of protest to the SecGen's office (to one
phone number) in Brussels...

If you are interested in putting up a meaningful effort to change SFOR's
behavior - democratically - through various Atlantic Councils, the NATO PA
and I am open to that.  I will say something... I am considering attending
the various pro-NATO forums and other activities this year, starting in
Norfolk. I am also considering contacting the Serbian Unity Congress and
offering to work with them on protesting SFOR's behavior through various
Atlantic Associations and the NATO PA and perhaps through the a writing
campaign...

I intend to at least do something...

---

Dear Mr. Scheffer:
I learned of the brutal actions of SFOR - for the umpteenth time - with
great anger and sadness. Every single brutal action that SFOR executed on
the Serbian people in the Balkans, especially in BiH moves us further away
from bringing the Serbian people into the Atlantic family. SFOR must stop
these brutal search practices, or we shall get nowhere but backwards in our
stated goals!

Second - along with the brutal actions of SFOR, this notion the Serbia
cannot be associated with NATO and the Atlantic Community until two war
criminals are produced CHEAPENS our North Atlantic Treaty and Atlantic
Community. The North Atlantic Treaty, its principles, values and purposes,
are of greater value that two war criminals. Our North Atlantic Treaty and
association to our NATO and the Atlantic Community should not be sold for
that cheap!

Third - I have noted that for sometime, from the news reports, that there is
a rather anti-Serbian culture present in and among SFOR troops. A while
back, a former member of SFOR sent me an e-mail indicating that SFOR troops
are taught to believe that the Serbs "are crazy about war" and "can't be
trusted and are chronic liars."  What we should do is purge the anti-Serb
mentality from the ranks of SFOR and remove the peace enforcement status of
SFOR to peacekeeping - and purge Bosnian Muslim "helpers" from the ranks of
SFOR. In short, SFOR should stop with the anti-Serbian bigotry and organized
campaigns of violence against Pale Serbs.

SFOR is utterly shameful and disgraceful to us all in the Atlantic Community
and sets us farther away from our goals of a Europe "whole and free" and the
rightful place of the Serbian people in the Atlantic family! Rather than
shooting at Bosnian Serbs - we should be passing out the North Atlantic
Treaty in Serbo-Croatian in Pale!

What this Author is also alarmed at is that after the serious wounding of a
priest and his son - why has no statement of apology from our Alliance been
issued?!

---
Erin LaPorte
The NATO Citizen - www.pronato.com
P.O. Box 371162
Milwaukee, Wisconsin - USA
"Long live the entangling Alliance!"
53237-2062
NATO Allied Force forum
http://pub22.bravenet.com/forum/1831421237/


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us.military.navy 3-1-04 to 3-31-04  
1.  us.* group stats  
Ver perfil   Traduzir para Traduzido (ver original)
 Mais opções 1 abr 2004, 15:25
Grupos de notícias: us.config, us.military.navy
Encaminhar para: us.config
De: "us.* group stats" <us-st...@usenetnews.us>
Data: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:25:43 GMT
Local: Qui 1 abr 2004 15:25
Assunto: [MONTHLY POSTING STATS] us.military.navy 3-1-04 to 3-31-04
Newsgroup 'us.military.navy' - Monthly Stats  01-Apr-04
Generated by David Casey (davidca...@spamcop.net)

These results are based on the messages on the Easynews server.
Use your newsreaders monospaced font option to view correctly.

Total Posts this period: 608
Total Bytes this period: 2673014

------------------------START SECTION 'POSTERS'-----------------------

Number of posts by Person (84 people posted during this period)

TT  = This Time
LT  = Last Time
AML = Average Message Lines
QP  = Average Message Quoted Percent
PGM = Percentage of Group in Messages
PGB = Percentage of Group in Bytes

TT  LT  Person                               #  AML   QP   PGM   PGB
--- --- ------                             ---- --- ----- ----- -----
1   11  ssn...@bangserver.na..............   94  90 46.8% 15.5%  9.5%
2   4   Tank Fixer........................   59  58 58.7%  9.7%  4.1%
2   1   Otis Willie.......................   59  45  2.7%  9.7%  3.4%
4   7   Admin.............................   51  69 56.9%  8.4%  4.2%
5   21  LawsonE...........................   29  62 50.9%  4.8%  2.4%
6   4   Mark Test.........................   25  31 37.7%  4.1%  0.9%
7   15  redc1c4...........................   24  49 55.1%  3.9%  1.3%
8   21  Mike P............................   23  73 62.1%  3.8%  2.3%
9   --- Klaus Many........................   17  65 62.5%  2.8%  1.3%
10  15  edward ohare......................   13  24 27.0%  2.1%  0.4%
11  --- K. A. Cannon......................   12  71 44.0%  2.0%  0.9%
12  --- Geoff Berrow......................   11  23 23.8%  1.8%  0.3%
12  9   Henrietta K Thomas................   11  42 51.8%  1.8%  0.6%
12  21  Le Mod Pol........................   11  48 54.9%  1.8%  0.7%
12  --- GODS CREATOR......................   11  71 44.2%  1.8%  1.0%
16  21  RTO Trainer.......................   10  67 75.5%  1.6%  0.9%
16  --- William Davenant..................   10  44 22.8%  1.6%  0.7%
18  11  ~Nins~............................    9  33 61.3%  1.5%  0.4%
19  26  Dave (the OTHER one)..............    6  33 50.3%  1.0%  0.3%
19  --- Douglas Berry.....................    6  26 34.6%  1.0%  0.2%
19  13  David Casey.......................    6  20 27.8%  1.0%  0.1%
19  --- la n..............................    6  44 55.9%  1.0%  0.3%
19  --- Replacement_Tommel................    6  39 55.0%  1.0%  0.3%
24  --- Top Cop...........................    5 405  5.2%  0.8% 27.7%
24  --- Fed Up............................    5  41 41.9%  0.8%  0.3%
26  20  EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com......    4  17 21.8%  0.7%  0.1%
26  --- X98...............................    4 250 13.8%  0.7%  1.6%
26  --- => Vox Populi ©...................    4 138 76.7%  0.7%  0.7%
29  2   Duke of URL.......................    3  52 18.5%  0.5%  0.3%
29  --- ad...@usenetnews.us...............    3  75 24.9%  0.5%  0.3%
29  --- Big Gun...........................    3  32 28.1%  0.5%  0.1%
32  --- Hagar.............................    2  66 29.2%  0.3%  0.2%
32  38  Zippy the Pinhead.................    2  19 24.7%  0.3%  0.1%
32  --- ".................................    2 112 70.1%  0.3%  0.3%
32  21  ESLaPorte.........................    2  48  2.8%  0.3%  0.2%
32  --- Howard Lovy.......................    2  14  0.0%  0.3%  0.0%
32  --- dvick.............................    2  72 71.4%  0.3%  0.2%
32  --- Bill..............................    2 120 43.4%  0.3%  0.3%
32  --- Yeff..............................    2  30 21.2%  0.3%  0.1%
32  --- WJDI..............................    2   6  0.0%  0.3%  0.0%
32  --- veris and amee young..............    2  31 39.8%  0.3%  0.1%
32  --- Michael D'Alessandro..............    2  34  2.5%  0.3%  0.1%
32  --- us.* group stats..................    2 278  7.2%  0.3%  1.1%
32  --- Abrigon Gusiq.....................    2  34 14.8%  0.3%  0.1%
32  --- Al Dykes..........................    2  61 71.5%  0.3%  0.2%
32  --- M. J. Powell......................    2  13 27.9%  0.3%  0.0%
47  --- *CREATOR* of *WHO ?*..............    1  31  0.0%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- *-GOD's-* *-CREATOR-*.............    1  54 14.8%  0.2%  0.1%
47  --- Berel.............................    1  40  0.0%  0.2%  0.1%
47  15  Colin Campbell....................    1  30 36.7%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Denny.............................    1  57 73.7%  0.2%  0.1%
47  --- David Ward........................    1  15 33.3%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- c tango...........................    1  18 33.3%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Capt Lee..........................    1 152  0.0%  0.2%  3.5%
47  --- charles krin......................    1  23 21.7%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Colonel Flagg.....................    1  28 32.1%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- chilly............................    1  12 25.0%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Axis of Evil......................    1  47 59.6%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- miss calm.........................    1 249  3.2%  0.2%  0.4%
47  --- Wolffboy..........................    1  22 45.5%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Tough Enough......................    1 398  5.1%  0.2%  5.6%
47  --- Thomas Jackson....................    1   8  0.0%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Stormie...........................    1  12  0.0%  0.2%  0.0%
47  11  Steve Carmichael-Timson...........    1  27 70.4%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Sean..............................    1   6 16.7%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Paul..............................    1  12 16.7%  0.2%  0.0%
47  21  OldGezzer.........................    1  37 35.1%  0.2%  0.1%
47  38  Nosey.............................    1  19 63.2%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- nice guy..........................    1  32 71.9%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Joe Pritchard.....................    1  21  0.0%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Mona Klock........................    1   6  0.0%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Fred..............................    1  39 59.0%  0.2%  0.1%
47  --- Live God damn you People, Live!...    1 405  5.1%  0.2%  5.5%
47  --- like nobodies business............    1 390  5.0%  0.2%  5.5%
47  --- Liberals Are Morons...............    1 370  0.0%  0.2%  0.7%
47  --- Larry Cordes......................    1  62 75.8%  0.2%  0.1%
47  --- kd................................    1   9  0.0%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Kay Archer........................    1  86 65.1%  0.2%  0.1%
47  --- JTM...............................    1 108 96.0%  0.2%  1.9%
47  21  Jeff Muniz........................    1  17  5.9%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- I hate bushite....................    1 390  5.0%  0.2%  5.5%
47  --- Harry Grogan......................    1  41 73.2%  0.2%  0.1%
47  --- g...@internet.charitydays.co.uk...    1  52  0.0%  0.2%  0.0%
47  --- Nemesis...........................    1  11  0.0%  0.2%  0.0%
                                       Averages (314 32.6%)
------------------------END SECTION 'POSTERS'------------------------

--------------------START SECTION 'BANDWIDTH HOGS!'-------------------

            Person             Hog Factor
            ------             --- ------
Top Cop.......................   48636
JTM...........................   19382
ssn...@bangserver.na..........   18565
Tank Fixer....................   15161
Admin.........................   14153
Tough Enough..................   9811
I hate bushite................   9766
like nobodies business........   9763
Live God damn you People, Live   9732
Mike P........................   9582

--------------------END SECTION 'BANDWIDTH HOGS!'--------------------

-----------------------START SECTION 'SUBJECTS'-----------------------

Number of posts by Subject (116 subjects during this period)

TT  LT  Subject                                     #    PGM    PGB
--- --- -------                                    ---  ------ ------
1   --- D-Day for us.military....................   80  13.16%  2.97%
2   --- Retention Issues in the US Military - Quo   76  12.50%  6.57%
3   --- Query:  Creation of new group us.military   60   9.87%  3.34%
4   --- Transformation of the US Military - Wish    58   9.54%  5.00%
5   --- WHERE WAS PREZ G.W. BUSH DURING THE 9/11    50   8.22%  3.43%
6   --- CBS Clarke Interview, firecracker or bomb   41   6.74%  2.65%
7   --- One More Reason Why us.military Should be   39   6.41%  5.65%
8   --- POST FINAL RFD (Request for Discussion) U   25   4.11%  2.14%
9   --- Rejected- Final RFD (Request for Discussi   10   1.64%  0.83%
10  --- Attention HKT, your pet is loose (was Re:    9   1.48%  0.33%
11  --- Radio information........................    7   1.15%  0.16%
11  --- Where is that darn control message for US    7   1.15%  0.17%
13  --- POST FINAL RFD (Request for Discussion) U    6   0.99%  0.32%
13  --- Terrorism: Is Europe gonna' finally get i    6   0.99%  0.29%
13  18  Don't kill bush for me, do it for Jesus..    6   0.99% 33.27%
16  --- POST FINAL RFD (Request for Discussion) U    5   0.82%  0.19%
16  --- help need info  on montgomery bill.......    5   0.82%  0.20%
18  --- long term benefits.......................    4   0.66%  0.30%
19  --- The Politically Correct Leftwing Liberal     3   0.49%  0.71%
19  --- DO YOU LIKE TO PLAY WAR GAMES  ?.........    3   0.49%  0.74%
21  --- Navy goats bleat and eat, and the grass g    2   0.33%  0.36%
21  --- Still there is always HOPE...............    2   0.33%  0.05%
21  --- it's a RFCM, not an RFD.( was Re: POST FI    2   0.33%  0.05%
21  --- How do I ?...............................    2   0.33%  0.02%
21  11  "BOMBSHELL!" - General Garner is said to     2   0.33% 11.11%
21  --- Short and Sweet-NOT......................    2   0.33%  7.40%
21  --- The us.military decision or lack of [Was     2   0.33%  0.15%
21  --- Final RFD (Request for Discussion) Unmode    2   0.33%  0.41%
21  --- America Awaits The Iraq War Memorial.....    2   0.33%  0.12%
21  --- us.military: the bottom line (Was: Re: Fi    2   0.33%  0.50%
21  --- Can anyone tell me what this is?.........    2   0.33%  3.48%
21  --- The 404k00k Netcops......................    2   0.33%  0.03%
33  --- Increasing number of Navy officers gettin    1   0.16%  0.05%
33  --- IDF-Apache firing missiles on 67yr old
...

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Transformation of the US Military - Wish List  
1.  RTO Trainer  
Ver perfil   Traduzir para Traduzido (ver original)
 Mais opções 1 abr 2004, 18:30
Grupos de notícias: us.military.army, us.military, us.military.navy, alt.military
De: bill.wh...@us.army.mil (RTO Trainer)
Data: 1 Apr 2004 13:30:34 -0800
Local: Qui 1 abr 2004 18:30
Assunto: Re: Transformation of the US Military - Wish List

If what I'm finding is accurate (it's largely speculation--you'd
probably have access to better info bing able to access LG Petraeus)
the BN might end up looking like mini-ACRs; a combined arms team.

I'm not familiar enough with teh MEU composition to have made that
statement but it makes sense in a lot of ways.  The Expeditionary
nature is one of the things that the Army is trying to capture and the
Marines have been doing that successfully for a long time.

> I do not believe the choice was arbitrary or
> driven by the DA but rather based upon the studies that were
> developed prior to the adoption of the Airland concept of
> the 1980s that indicated that the Brigade was likely the
> ideal manuever unit that could operate as a separate, self
> sufficient and autonomous force in the enemy second echelon
> and lines of supply (which BTW was the way that NATO would
> counter the problem of numerical inferiority when it's 8-12
> divisions were faced with 144 potential Soviet Divisions).
> The Brigade still has those capabilities even though in the
> late 1980s and 1990s the supporting assets were moved to
> Division and Corps levels as they were once again the units
> of choice for cost cutting measures (increasing teeth to
> tail ratio it has been called since the days after the
> Vietnam War where every brigade was indeed self contained).

Interestingly greater teeth to tail is what is supposed to be achieved
by this as well even though they are moving Corps and Div assets down.
 We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

Yep.

Now for Part Two, Part One being the Maneuver part.

There are functions that need to be "promoted" out of the individual
services altogether or in part and up to DoD.  They shoud, by nature,
be Joint.  these include:  Procurement, National Level Intelligence,
Health Maintenance functions of Medical, Inter Theater
...

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2.  ssnark@bangserver.na  
Ver perfil   Traduzir para Traduzido (ver original)
 Mais opções 1 abr 2004, 19:07
Grupos de notícias: us.military.army, us.military, us.military.navy, alt.military
De: "ssn...@bangserver.na" <ssn...@earthlink.net>
Data: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:07:41 GMT
Local: Qui 1 abr 2004 19:07
Assunto: Re: Transformation of the US Military - Wish List
"RTO Trainer" <bill.wh...@us.army.mil> wrote in message

news:ed856011.0404011330.4f4e430b@posting.google.com

> If what I'm finding is accurate (it's largely
speculation--you'd
> probably have access to better info bing able to access LG
Petraeus)
> the BN might end up looking like mini-ACRs; a combined
arms team.

What I've seen is that the Brigade will look like a
"mini-ACR" with supporting arms (aviation and arty),
transportation/logistics (aviation and vehicular) along with
MP units integrated into the Brigade TO&E which make the
Brigade more akin to a regiment in both size and
organization than the current versions.  The Airborne and
Air Assault versions of this are even more amorphous and
somehow it doesn't look all that light, fast and deployable
at this time.  I am of the opinion that it should look more
like a USMC MEU but to do that means to sacrifice
sustainability and quite a bit of survivability IMO.

I think it is the concept they're trying to achieve but, to
add sustainability and survivability to it for the kinds of
missions that are envisioned adds a *lot* of weight and
personnel of which only some small part can at this time be
eliminated by automation or lightened by substitution of
existing technologies.  One of the aspect of this that I'm
not particularly enamored of, is the discussion of removing
all artillery and heavy armor from the units.

I know, I think I'm going to adapt redc1c4's attitude on
this. :-O

OK.  How about Theater level Intelligence?  I'm pretty much
convinced that even that could and should be done by a joint
service team.
I think that Medical is also one that can be joint all the
way down to the lowest echelon and would put them out of the
chain of command which is not a bad idea.
Also add R&D to procurement as anything being developed
should work into an overall operational doctrine.

Snark


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3.  Howard Berkowitz  
Ver perfil   Traduzir para Traduzido (ver original)
 Mais opções 1 abr 2004, 23:00
Grupos de notícias: us.military.army, us.military, us.military.navy, alt.military
De: Howard Berkowitz <h...@gettcomm.com>
Data: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:00:45 -0500
Local: Qui 1 abr 2004 23:00
Assunto: Re: Transformation of the US Military - Wish List
In article <No0bc.11608$lt2.3...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,

"ssn...@bangserver.na" <ssn...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> OK.  How about Theater level Intelligence?  I'm pretty much
> convinced that even that could and should be done by a joint
> service team.

Agreed, at least at the analytical level. Depends on the level where you
put certain assets that aren't in the TENCAP program, but are still
mostly nationally controlled.  For example, large airborne collectors
aren't going to be well supported by the Army, which doesn't have
facilities for large fixed-wing aircraft. The Air Force will have
problems with tactical submarine-deployed sensors.

> I think that Medical is also one that can be joint all the
> way down to the lowest echelon and would put them out of the
> chain of command which is not a bad idea.

You'll have to have some options for specialization.  Aerospace and
diving medicine, for example, are legitimate specialties that won't be
needed in all units.

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4.  ssnark@bangserver.na  
Ver perfil   Traduzir para Traduzido (ver original)
 Mais opções 2 abr 2004, 01:16
Grupos de notícias: us.military.army, us.military, us.military.navy, alt.military
De: "ssn...@bangserver.na" <ssn...@earthlink.net>
Data: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 04:16:20 GMT
Local: Sex 2 abr 2004 01:16
Assunto: Re: Transformation of the US Military - Wish List
"Howard Berkowitz" <h...@gettcomm.com> wrote in message

news:hcb-B5BFAA.21004501042004@text.giganews.com
> In article

<No0bc.11608$lt2.3...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,

At the theater level I'd be surprised if there were not Air
Bases and if need be Naval staff available to monitor the
data from fleet sensor platforms and systems. There were
whenever we had RIMPAC exercises in CinCPAC.

>> I think that Medical is also one that can be joint all
the
>> way down to the lowest echelon and would put them out of
the
>> chain of command which is not a bad idea.

> You'll have to have some options for specialization.
Aerospace and
> diving medicine, for example, are legitimate specialties
that won't be
> needed in all units.

That would be reasonable although the Aerospace and Diving
Medical specialties already exist in three of the services.

Snark


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