"Sarah H" <shartw...@shartwell.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>I only do the Intercity version.  Chelmsford to Liverpool St is a commuter
>service and it's often (over)crowded and sometimes grubby, but never had
>rude staff nor ancient trains.  Until they put ticket barrers at the
>stations I could have done the whole journey without a ticket!  Worst
>journey was to York - the train was a footie supporters' train complete with
>torn seats and ominous stains in carriages.

> In article <afi3te$88...@venus.btinternet.com>,
> William Black <black_will...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@.dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> >news:3d1c1f1b.8521448@news.iafrica.com...

> >> And what would you like for your birthday Johnny?

> >> A train set just like BR please, daddy!

> >> Wouldn't you rather prefer one that worked?

> >Somehow the current bunch of incompetent buffoons running the railways
have
> >transformed BR from a dreadful joke into a much missed old auntie.

> Cough. BR were *bloody* good. Hopelessly under-resourced, but bloody
> good. What we have in front of us now is the magical achievement of
> a bunch of "free-market" bigots and fsckwits and the glorious private
> sector in taking a world-class (yes, and I include Germany here - I've
> lived there: BR did it better than DB, by and large) railway and wrecking
> it to satisfy their own despicable political agenda. But then, what
> else can one expect of the tapeworm party[1]?
> The amazing thing is that it still works as well as it does. Still
> quite usable long-haul, and beats the hell out of driving. The ethos
> of public service lives on, and has even survived the last 10 years and
> the toxic effect of Branson, Sherwood et al.

> Andy, who's used the railways as his prime means of transport for the
> last 15-16 years or so and - on this at least - knows of what he speaks.

> [1] THe Conservative and Unionist Party, to give it its less flattering
> name. Thank you to Iain Banks for that one..

Peter McLelland wrote:

> "ANDREW ROBERT BREEN" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:afibjl$a6vu$1@central.aber.ac.uk...
> > In article <afi3te$88...@venus.btinternet.com>,
> > William Black <black_will...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > >"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@.dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
> > >news:3d1c1f1b.8521448@news.iafrica.com...

> > >> And what would you like for your birthday Johnny?

> > >> A train set just like BR please, daddy!

> > >> Wouldn't you rather prefer one that worked?

> > >Somehow the current bunch of incompetent buffoons running the railways
> have
> > >transformed BR from a dreadful joke into a much missed old auntie.

> > Cough. BR were *bloody* good. Hopelessly under-resourced, but bloody
> > good. What we have in front of us now is the magical achievement of
> > a bunch of "free-market" bigots and fsckwits and the glorious private
> > sector in taking a world-class (yes, and I include Germany here - I've
> > lived there: BR did it better than DB, by and large) railway and wrecking
> > it to satisfy their own despicable political agenda. But then, what
> > else can one expect of the tapeworm party[1]?
> > The amazing thing is that it still works as well as it does. Still
> > quite usable long-haul, and beats the hell out of driving. The ethos
> > of public service lives on, and has even survived the last 10 years and
> > the toxic effect of Branson, Sherwood et al.

> > Andy, who's used the railways as his prime means of transport for the
> > last 15-16 years or so and - on this at least - knows of what he speaks.

> > [1] THe Conservative and Unionist Party, to give it its less flattering
> > name. Thank you to Iain Banks for that one..

> I'm afraid that I can't agree with you on that one, I would agree that in
> some areas the there was some ethos of public service, but in many the
> public were only an annoyance to be put up with in order to get their wages.
> I too used rail extensively for a number of years, and still do from time to
> time. I would agree with your comments about DB and include SNCF as well,
> although this is based on limited sampling.

> The problem is that in many areas you have a combination of the failed
> incompetent management of BR still trying to do the job and still failing.

> I would agree that the model of privatisation that was used was flawed and
> the worst part was the creation of railtrack which should never have been
> privatised. Many problems are also due to the franchise period and the
> method in which operating companies were forced to lease rolling stock.

Mark Borgerson <m...@oes.to> wrote:
>All the rest was on trains or subways.  You can do that
>in Paris and London and points between.  I can't envision
>doing the same in most US cities.

Eugene Griessel wrote:

> Mark Borgerson <m...@oes.to> wrote:

> >All the rest was on trains or subways.  You can do that
> >in Paris and London and points between.  I can't envision
> >doing the same in most US cities.

> Dunno what it's like now but in the late seventies when you tried to
> book a seat on some US rail lines they would advise you that it was
> cheaper to fly.  As if they wanted to scare people away.

> Eugene L Griessel         www.dynagen.co.za/eugene
> SAAF Crashboat History    www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/guybook.html

> "Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because
> they almost always turn out to be - or to be indistinguishable from - self-righteous
> sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."

> Neil Stephenson, Cryptonomicon

Griessel) wrote:
>Mark Borgerson <m...@oes.to> wrote:

>>All the rest was on trains or subways.  You can do that
>>in Paris and London and points between.  I can't envision
>>doing the same in most US cities.

>Dunno what it's like now but in the late seventies when you tried to
>book a seat on some US rail lines they would advise you that it was
>cheaper to fly.  As if they wanted to scare people away.

>Eugene L Griessel         www.dynagen.co.za/eugene
>SAAF Crashboat History    www.dynagen.co.za/eugene/guybook.html

>"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because
>they almost always turn out to be - or to be indistinguishable from - self-righteous
>sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."

>Neil Stephenson, Cryptonomicon

Jack Love wrote:

> On Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:39:58 GMT, eugene@.dynagen..co..za (Eugene
> Griessel) wrote:

> >Mark Borgerson <m...@oes.to> wrote:

> >>All the rest was on trains or subways.  You can do that
> >>in Paris and London and points between.  I can't envision
> >>doing the same in most US cities.

> >Dunno what it's like now but in the late seventies when you tried to
> >book a seat on some US rail lines they would advise you that it was
> >cheaper to fly.  As if they wanted to scare people away.

> It was true! My folks, in retirement, tried to book a cross country
> compartment...and ended up saying "We didn't actually want to buy the
> train."

Eugene Griessel wrote:

> Mark Borgerson <m...@oes.to> wrote:

> >All the rest was on trains or subways.  You can do that
> >in Paris and London and points between.  I can't envision
> >doing the same in most US cities.

> Dunno what it's like now but in the late seventies when you tried to
> book a seat on some US rail lines they would advise you that it was
> cheaper to fly.  As if they wanted to scare people away.

>London it now faster and more comfortable by car,  and I drive a Land Rover!

<peter.rie...@baesystems.com> wrote:
>> Now that's cynical...

>It's in my job description.