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Japan military  
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1.  Keith Willshaw  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 2001, 04:56
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval, rec.aviation.military
De: "Keith Willshaw" <keith_wills...@compuserve.com>
Data: Tue, 1 May 2001 09:06:37 +0100
Local: Ter 1 maio 2001 05:06
Assunto: Re: Japan military

"Atori Sakana" <a...@nozomi.co.jp> wrote in message

news:3AEE13EE.93860A84@nozomi.co.jp...

> New Prime Minister Koizumi has added to China security concern by saying
> to remove constitution limits on Japan's military. Mr Koizumi is not
> doing anything dramatic. He is not forming a military but now calling
> our "Self Defence Force" as a military. 240,000 soldiers, 1,000 tanks,
> 16 submarines and 300 fighter planes is very much a text book describing
> of military. We have been calling it "Self Defence Force" to be nice.

Hardly unsual the UK used to have a Ministry of War , now its the
Ministry of Defence <shrug>

> It is still a provoking symbol that agitate China. We do this because
> George W. Bush asked us to. We were surprised too. We would have thought
> after Pearl Harbour the Americans would be the last to ask us to revive
> our military. But something has to be done. Not to protect against China
> but to revive US and Japanese economies.

Given that China outnumbers the new expanded Japanese
military by better than 10 to 1 I dont think they are really
worried about a new invasion. As for reviving the economy
then cutting taxes and removing regulation would seem
likely to be more effective than a name change for the army.

Keith


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2.  Andy Bell  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 2001, 08:34
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval, rec.aviation.military
De: "Andy Bell" <a...@phoenixs.co.uk>
Data: Tue, 1 May 2001 12:29:59 +0100
Local: Ter 1 maio 2001 08:29
Assunto: Re: Japan military
Large capital spending by central government is a way of injecting some life
into a stagnent economy.  It was done in America in the 30's I think, wasn't
the Hoover dam built by unemployed men who were given jobs on this project ?

And rearmament created many jobs in Europe in the late 30's.

Japan has a huge hi-tech industry, what better way to fill up their order
books than getting them to design and build a new hi-tech military ?

Kill two birds with one stone, revive the economy and increase Japans
stature as a major player.

IF the government can afford it.....It is in the US's interests to have a
strong counter balance to Chinese strength in that area, maybe the US will
provide some help in this area in the form of favourable loans and sharing
technology ??

Just a few thoughts....

"Keith Willshaw" <keith_wills...@compuserve.com> wrote in message

news:9clq80$s31$3@sshuraac-i-1.production.compuserve.com...


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3.  Coridon Henshaw  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 2001, 15:35
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval, rec.aviation.military
De: (chenshaw<RE<MOVE>)@(TH+ESE)sympatico.ca) (Coridon Henshaw)
Data: Tue, 01 May 2001 18:35:36 GMT
Local: Ter 1 maio 2001 15:35
Assunto: Re: Japan military
"Andy Bell" <a...@phoenixs.co.uk> wrote in
<3aee9f38$0$12249$ed9e5...@reading.news.pipex.net>:

>IF the government can afford it.....It is in the US's interests to
>have a strong counter balance to Chinese strength in that area,
>maybe the US will provide some help in this area in the form of
>favourable loans and sharing technology ??

I don't think that is too likely.  The U.S. makes a lot of noise
about the need for its allies to pick up more of their defensive tab,
but when push comes to shove the U.S. fights tooth an nail to prevent
other countries from developing significant military forces.  When
the the U.S. says 'pick up the tab' I think they mean it as 'pay us'
rather than 'do the work yourself.'  It's pretty clear that the
Americans won't tolerate anyone attempting to upset their status as
the largest bully in the sandbox.

--
Coridon Henshaw -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/gcircle/csbh
"..To expect a good deal from life is puerile." -- D.H. Lawrence


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4.  Stephen Harding  
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 Mais opções 2 maio 2001, 10:03
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval, rec.aviation.military
De: Stephen Harding <hard...@hobart.cs.umass.edu>
Data: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:03:41 -0400
Local: Qua 2 maio 2001 10:03
Assunto: Re: Japan military
"chenshaw TH+ESE Coridon Henshaw" wrote:

> I don't think that is too likely.  The U.S. makes a lot of noise
> about the need for its allies to pick up more of their defensive tab,
> but when push comes to shove the U.S. fights tooth an nail to prevent
> other countries from developing significant military forces.  When
> the the U.S. says 'pick up the tab' I think they mean it as 'pay us'
> rather than 'do the work yourself.'  It's pretty clear that the
> Americans won't tolerate anyone attempting to upset their status as
> the largest bully in the sandbox.

And what does America do to countries that "threaten" to not allow
the US to defend them by building up their own militaries?

SMH


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5.  Kerryn Offord  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 2001, 19:05
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval, rec.aviation.military
De: Kerryn Offord <ka...@student.canterbury.ac.nz>
Data: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:02:54 +1200
Local: Ter 1 maio 2001 19:02
Assunto: Re: Japan military

Andy Bell wrote:

> Large capital spending by central government is a way of injecting some life
> into a stagnent economy.  It was done in America in the 30's I think, wasn't
> the Hoover dam built by unemployed men who were given jobs on this project ?

> And rearmament created many jobs in Europe in the late 30's.

The problem with this is that money spent on weapons is lost, i.e.,
offers no return on investment (there is a significant opportunity cost
of the money spent on weapons compared with the potential income from
other possible investments), while the Hoover dam produced electricity
(I assume) which is an economic return.

(Or, Dams have an economic value after they are constructed, can the
same be said for a weapon system?).

Rearmament in Europe in the late 1930's was more a reaction to a threat
(Germany) than an attempt to stimulate a stagnent economy.


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6.  Steven James Forsberg  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 2001, 09:01
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval, rec.aviation.military
Encaminhar para: sci.military.naval, rec.aviation.military
De: sjfor...@Bayou.UH.EDU (Steven James Forsberg)
Data: 1 May 2001 12:01:55 GMT
Local: Ter 1 maio 2001 09:01
Assunto: Re: Japan military

: >  There has been discussion that dropping the "self defense" line
: >would allow Japan to build up the best defense possible, which according
: >to the Americans is "a good offense". Along these lines there are two
: >very big items Japan might pursue in the next few years:
: >  A) A "strategic" air force.
: >  B) Missiles!

: The problem though, is Japan's economy isn't the most robust in the
: world right.  How are they going to pay for any sort of major
: expansion of their "More Than Self Defense Forces"?

        It wouldn't have to be a "major" expansion, the Japanese military
budget is large enough that shifting some money around could easily
provide funds to start such programs in at least small numbers. I don't
think it would take much (either missiles or 'bombers') to get the attention
of everyone else in the region. It would probably be cheaper than
alternative 'conventional' up arming plans (like mini-carriers and gator
forces) sometimes bandied about.
        Besides, even on a bad day Japan can still outspend most of the
parts of Asia she hasn't already purchased :-).  The introduction of
theater ballistic missiles into the Japanese arsenal could be enough to
drive US regional strategy bonkers (all the more reason for Japan to
suggest we do something to forestall such a possibility...).

regards,
----------------------------------------------------------------
sjfor...@bayou.uh.edu


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7.  Stephen Harding  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 2001, 10:10
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval, rec.aviation.military
De: Stephen Harding <hard...@hobart.cs.umass.edu>
Data: Tue, 01 May 2001 09:10:23 -0400
Local: Ter 1 maio 2001 10:10
Assunto: Re: Japan military

Steven James Forsberg wrote:
>         It wouldn't have to be a "major" expansion, the Japanese military
> budget is large enough that shifting some money around could easily
> provide funds to start such programs in at least small numbers. I don't
> think it would take much (either missiles or 'bombers') to get the attention
> of everyone else in the region. It would probably be cheaper than
> alternative 'conventional' up arming plans (like mini-carriers and gator
> forces) sometimes bandied about.

They could use the same strategy they used for consumer goods.  Target a
small area of military technological development: missiles, radars,
communications, whatever, and do it well.

> parts of Asia she hasn't already purchased :-).  The introduction of
> theater ballistic missiles into the Japanese arsenal could be enough to
> drive US regional strategy bonkers (all the more reason for Japan to
> suggest we do something to forestall such a possibility...).

That would definitely get the world's attention!

Instead of forstalling the possibility, it would encourage US-Japanese
collaboration on the technology (I think that is already in the plan),
and, IMHO, greatly improve the chances of a useful system, or speed up
its production.

SMH


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8.  Stephen Harding  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 2001, 10:02
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval, rec.aviation.military
De: Stephen Harding <hard...@hobart.cs.umass.edu>
Data: Tue, 01 May 2001 09:02:03 -0400
Local: Ter 1 maio 2001 10:02
Assunto: Re: Japan military

Atori Sakana wrote:
> It is still a provoking symbol that agitate China. We do this because
> George W. Bush asked us to. We were surprised too. We would have thought

If Japan does this, it will be because Japan's leadership sees it is in
its interests to do so.  It will not be as a favor to George Bush.

> after Pearl Harbour the Americans would be the last to ask us to revive
> our military. But something has to be done. Not to protect against China
> but to revive US and Japanese economies.

Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima will be sources of friction between the US and
Japan forever, but practical political leaders won't let such events
dictate policies 50 years after the fact.  Influence, yes, but dictate, no.

It makes good sense for the US to see a more militarily capable Japan when
we increasingly see China as a Pacific threat.  It makes good sense for
Japan's stagnant economy to have a military modernization and expansion
program.

Seems to me Japan has a strong and viable democratic oriented leadership
that won't let militarists dictate foreign policy, now and quite far into
the forseeable future.  

I think it is time for Japan to take on military and political
responsibilites that are more consumate with its economic power (even in
a past decade of economic stagnation).  

I applaud the idea of a more capable Japanese military, but note I'm a
budding isolationist, so my interests might be more selfish in nature.

SMH


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9.  B F Lake  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 2001, 12:45
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval, rec.aviation.military
De: "B F Lake" <bfl...@coastnet.com>
Data: Tue, 01 May 2001 15:45:09 -0000
Local: Ter 1 maio 2001 12:45
Assunto: Re: Japan military
Stephen Harding <hard...@hobart.cs.umass.edu> wrote in article

> I think it is time for Japan to take on military and political
> responsibilites that are more consumate with its economic power

If the people let them change the constitution ( like the people have any
say) this could mean they can pass an Act to re-create the Imperial
Japanese Navy !

It will run wild in the Pacific for six months, then... oops wrong script.

OK it will need a proper flagship .   None of your DDG crap either.  A
replica YAMATO!
It will look great and pay for itself as a movie prop and from millionaires
willing to pay $20 million just to be the officer -of- the- watch for an
afternoon.    

On visits to Pearl, it can fire its 21 gun salutes straight at that
moribund old tub the USN has there, another great son et lumiere event for
the tourists as BB vs BB is seen again .  This will also go over big on
Japanese TV replacing Godzilla re-runs.

The USN will be forced to respond.   The Germans too, a replica BISMARCK
..they will all do it.  Pretty soon nobody will care about the Tall Ships;
the big thing will be the annual BB reviews in all the big ports, smners
can bring their kids...

Regards,
Barry


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10.  Jack Love  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 2001, 18:38
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: Jack Love <jacklo...@earthlink.x.net>
Data: Tue, 01 May 2001 14:41:20 -0700
Local: Ter 1 maio 2001 18:41
Assunto: Re: Japan military
On Tue, 01 May 2001 15:45:09 -0000, "B F Lake" <bfl...@coastnet.com>
wrote:

>Stephen Harding <hard...@hobart.cs.umass.edu> wrote in article

>> I think it is time for Japan to take on military and political
>> responsibilites that are more consumate with its economic power

>If the people let them change the constitution ( like the people have any
>say) this could mean they can pass an Act to re-create the Imperial
>Japanese Navy !

>It will run wild in the Pacific for six months, then... oops wrong script.

>OK it will need a proper flagship .   None of your DDG crap either.  A
>replica YAMATO!

As far as 'defense spending capital infusions to stimulate the
economy' go just wait till they transform the new-Yamato into the
orbital spaceship that will be demanded by all of the fans!

>It will look great and pay for itself as a movie prop and from millionaires
>willing to pay $20 million just to be the officer -of- the- watch for an
>afternoon.    

That does infringe on the patented rights of the Iowas to look
good...I think the USN might complain vigorously.

>On visits to Pearl, it can fire its 21 gun salutes straight at that
>moribund old tub the USN has there, another great son et lumiere event for
>the tourists as BB vs BB is seen again .  This will also go over big on
>Japanese TV replacing Godzilla re-runs.

>The USN will be forced to respond.   The Germans too, a replica BISMARCK
>..they will all do it.  Pretty soon nobody will care about the Tall Ships;
>the big thing will be the annual BB reviews in all the big ports, smners
>can bring their kids...

Oops, you HAVE come up with the true reason for bringing the Iowas
back.


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