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Question on killfiles  
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Com o objetivo de verificação, digite os caracteres que você vê na figura abaixo ou os números que ouvir ao clicar no ícone de acessibilidade. Ouça e digite os números que ouvir
 
1.  Remove .123456 to reply  
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 Mais opções 1 jul 1999, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: msaroff.123...@pobox.com (Matthew Saroff (Remove .123456 to reply))
Data: 1999/07/01
Assunto: Re: Question on killfiles

Ben Phillipps <bp...@students.latrobe.edu.au> wrote:
>Hello,

>Just wondering what are the common topics on peoples killfiles here
>other than making money and porn stuff?

>I have netscape 4.5 and the message filter on the doesn't seem to be
>terribly effective, I don't know if it even works, it doesn't show up on
>the filter log.

        I'd suggest adding "USS Liberty".  The conversation is
vaguely interesting the first time, but it repeats every two
weeks.
--
  Matthew Saroff  | Standard Disclaimer:  Not only do I speak for
       _____      | No one else, I don't even Speak for me.  All my
      / o o \     | personalities and the spirits that I channel
______|_____|_____| disavow all knowledge of my activities. ;-)
  uuu    U   uuu  |
                  | In fact, all my personalities and channeled spirits
Saroff wuz here   | hate my guts. (Well, maybe with garlic & butter...)
For law enforcment officials monitoring the net: abortion, marijuana, cocaine,
cia,plutonium, ammonium nitrate, militia, dea, nsa, pgp, hacker, assassinate.
Send suggestions for new and interesting words to:
msar...@123456.pobox.com. (remove the numbers to reply)
Check http://www.pobox.com/~msaroff, including The Bad Hair Web Page

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Why no preseved UK Battleships ?  
1.  Clive Burt  
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 Mais opções 1 jul 1999, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: "Clive Burt" <cl...@burt18.freeserve.co.uk>
Data: 1999/07/01
Assunto: Re: Why no preseved UK Battleships ?
Why is it any different to the preservation of the American BB's or HMS
Belfast ?

Regards

Clive

Andrew C. Toppan <actop...@gwi.net> wrote in message
news:G9cc3.204$MC6.381@newsfeed.slurp.net...

> Paul Cassidy (paul.cass...@wxs.nl) was seen to write:
> > They really should have preserved Warspite. If any ship deserved to
live, it
> > was her!

> I would not want to be the museum tasked with preserving that floating
> scrapyard!

> --
> Andrew Toppan   ---   actop...@gwi.net   ---   "I speak only for myself"
> US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum/USS Salem Online -

http://www.uss-salem.org/


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2.  Adam  
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 Mais opções 1 jul 1999, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: Adam <Ahowar...@prodigy.net>
Data: 1999/07/01
Assunto: Re: Why no preseved UK Battleships ?

> Why is it any different to the preservation of the American BB's or HMS
> Belfast ?

Her material condition. She was in very, VERY bad shape and would have
been scrapped after the glide bomb hit she took at Salerno if more fire
suppport hadn't been needed along the Walcheren coast. For example
turret three was out of action. A good book on the subject it "HMS
Warspite." They basically just fixed her up enought to put her to sea
one last time.

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3.  Peter Skelton  
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 Mais opções 2 jul 1999, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: skelt...@home.com (Peter Skelton)
Data: 1999/07/02
Assunto: Re: Why no preseved UK Battleships ?

Adam <Ahowar...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> Why is it any different to the preservation of the American BB's or HMS
>> Belfast ?

>Her material condition. She was in very, VERY bad shape and would have
>been scrapped after the glide bomb hit she took at Salerno if more fire
>suppport hadn't been needed along the Walcheren coast. For example
>turret three was out of action. A good book on the subject it "HMS
>Warspite." They basically just fixed her up enought to put her to sea
>one last time.

Warspite was kept in service for sentimental reasons. The RN had two or
more BB's in better condition sitting at the pier for lack of crews from
before D Day on.

--
Peter Skelton
Skelton & Associates
613/389-1705
skelt...@home.com


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4.  Paul J. Adam  
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 Mais opções 1 jul 1999, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: "Paul J. Adam" <P...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk>
Data: 1999/07/01
Assunto: Re: Why no preseved UK Battleships ?
In article <7lgns7$ia...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, Clive Burt <clive@burt1
8.freeserve.co.uk> writes

>Why is it any different to the preservation of the American BB's or HMS
>Belfast ?

>Regards
>Clive

Warspite was in _horrible_ shape by war's end. Belfast was preserved
in, IIRC, 1970 or so, in reasonable overall condition (she was in fine
fettle last time I was aboard) - Warspite was staggering from warzone
to warzone without much secondary armament, one 15" turret gone,
half her machinery spaces ruined, and by war's end she was a
constructive total loss.

If the money had been available, Warspite should have been saved
and kept in Portsmouth :) But she was a _lot_ of steel,  available for
scrapping, in terrible condition, and it was use her or lose her.
Preservation wasn't an option at that point.

Tragic, but true. I wish we had a dreadnought battleship in Pompey
to finish the evolution from Mary Rose to Victory to Warrior to...
whatever we could get. Warspite and Vanguard would be good
choices, but we're missing that last step in the evolution of the line-
of-battleship.

Perhaps we could acquire an Iowa-class BB? ;)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...            

Paul J. Adam                                  p...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk  


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5.  John Mianowski  
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 Mais opções 1 jul 1999, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: j_mian...@ix.netcom.com (John Mianowski)
Data: 1999/07/01
Assunto: Re: Why no preseved UK Battleships ?
In article <E3WlrXApD$e3E...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk>,
P...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk says...

> Perhaps we could acquire an Iowa-class BB? ;)

What makes you think we're not going to reactivate
them?!?

;-)

JM

--
SPAM Deflector:  Remove the underscore from my address to
send me e-mail.


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6.  G. Smith  
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 Mais opções 1 jul 1999, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: "G. Smith" <g_smith...@hotmail.com>
Data: 1999/07/01
Assunto: Re: Why no preseved UK Battleships ?
We're not talking about refurbishing HMS Warspite to the point that she
could have been placed in the reserve, we're talking about preserving
one of the most valuable cultural, technological and historic icons of
the past two centuries. Her scrapping was a loss to the whole of the
English speaking peoples. Those scars were not just battle damage or
signs of hard use, they were badges of honor, earned in protecting her
crews' lives, and the lives of the sailors and soldiers she was charged
with protecting. Warspite should have been made safe for visitors during
preservation, but in so far as practical, the damage should have
remained. I for one would have felt it an honor to see the concrete
holding her together at the end.

 I realize that times were difficult after the war, but Britain did
manage to support an ill-advised foray into socialism, an expensive
monarchy, the vestiges of an empire, and the development three V-bombers
during this era. After the war generation bore burdens and made
sacrifices as great as any in British history, the ideal that a ship as
important as HMS Warspite could be reduced to scrap for a few cents on
the pound is almost repugnant. How will Britons of the twenty-first
century come to view this decision? Did the faceless bureaucrats who
made the decision ask the men who rode with Warspite into the teeth of
death before the German fleet at Jutland if they were willing to make
economic sacrifices to preserve her? Did they ask the soldiers who
stormed Normandy’s beaches and found solace under her guns if she was
worth saving?

Please pardon this little tirade; I realize that few, if any, of the
readers on this newsgroup were in any position to affect the
preservation decision one way or another. And of course, the United
States has been almost as short-sighted with its naval heritage, as the
scrapping of USS Enterprise in 1959 showed.


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7.  Andrew C. Toppan  
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 Mais opções 2 jul 1999, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: actop...@gwi.net (Andrew C. Toppan)
Data: 1999/07/02
Assunto: Re: Why no preseved UK Battleships ?
G. Smith (g_smith...@hotmail.com) was seen to write:
> We're not talking about refurbishing HMS Warspite to the point that she
> could have been placed in the reserve, we're talking about preserving
> one of the most valuable cultural, technological and historic icons of

[snip silly tirade]

I certainly hope you're volunteering all your free time and money to help
in warship preservation efforts.  

--
Andrew Toppan   ---   actop...@gwi.net   ---   "I speak only for myself"
US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum/USS Salem Online - http://www.uss-salem.org/
Naval History, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more


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8.  Julian Barker  
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 Mais opções 2 jul 1999, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: Julian Barker <jul...@rodent.demon.co.uk>
Data: 1999/07/02
Assunto: Re: Why no preseved UK Battleships ?

G. Smith <g_smith...@hotmail.com> wrote

>We're not talking about refurbishing HMS Warspite to the point that she
>could have been placed in the reserve, we're talking about preserving
>one of the most valuable cultural, technological and historic icons of
>the past two centuries. Her scrapping was a loss to the whole of the
>English speaking peoples. Those scars were not just battle damage or
>signs of hard use, they were badges of honor, earned in protecting her
>crews' lives, and the lives of the sailors and soldiers she was charged
>with protecting. Warspite should have been made safe for visitors during
>preservation, but in so far as practical, the damage should have
>remained. I for one would have felt it an honor to see the concrete
>holding her together at the end.

I think you misunderstand the British psyche.

The average Brit is very proud of the nations naval heritage, but they
do not see this in terms of wood or steel. For most people the men who
fought and won those battles are more important than the vessels ever
will be. For example, everyone who visits Victory gets to see the plaque
that marks where Nelson allegedly was shot, and visits the point in the
ship where he died.

The country is full of pubs named after naval heroes, for example the
Admiral Duncan pub in Soho is in the news today. I live in Merton where
everything from the pubs, the roads and even the local hospital are
named after Nelson. I can think of one pub locally that is names
Victory.

A few places are named after ships, but it is extremely rare. Even very
famous ships like Revenge and Iron Duke have almost nothing named after
them.

The British people do not need ships, they know that a navy is not any
good without men of calibre to command and man them.

--
                             Julian Barker

                There is a coherent plan in the universe,
                though I don't know what it is a plan for.
                                             - Fred Hoyle


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9.  G. Smith  
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 Mais opções 2 jul 1999, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: "G. Smith" <g_smith...@hotmail.com>
Data: 1999/07/02
Assunto: Re: Why no preseved UK Battleships ?
Thank you for your insight, Julian. You're right, of course. Monuments to men
are much more meaningful than monuments to technology. As a professor of
mechanical engineering I may be predisposed to forget that.

By the way, I meant absolutely no disrespect to the British people, and hope
none of our friends, cousins and allies on the other side of the pond
construed my comments as such.


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