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Bikini Atoll  
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1.  Chong Y. Chow  
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 Mais opções 1 out 1995, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: chc...@cs.umb.edu (Chong Y. Chow)
Data: 1995/10/01
Assunto: Re: Bikini Atoll
Paolo Pizzi (pi...@crl.com) wrote:

: el...@wpi.edu (Andrew Toppan) writes:

: >Interesting to note that none of the US BBs were sunk by the bombs.

: Also Prinz Eugen sustained very little damage. German ships were
: like today's Mercedes cars: ugly but tough :-)

      Erh, maybe my taste is a little off but I thought the German cruisers
      were really good looking ships. The Prinz Eugen looked like a smaller
      version of the Bismarck with sleek lines and a wonderful angled bow.

: Paolo Pizzi
: Cypress, CA


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2.  PWestY  
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 Mais opções 1 out 1995, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: pwe...@aol.com (PWestY)
Data: 1995/10/01
Assunto: Re: Bikini Atoll
sleek only has two words when talking about ships and that is IOWA
CLASS!!!!!!

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3.  Paolo Pizzi  
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 Mais opções 1 out 1995, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: pi...@crl.com (Paolo Pizzi)
Data: 1995/10/01
Assunto: Re: Bikini Atoll

geo...@purplehaze.corp.sun.com (Geoff Miller) writes:
>pi...@crl.com (Paolo Pizzi) writes:
>> German ships were like today's Mercedes cars: ugly but tough :-)
>You really think the German ships of WWII were ugly?  I've always
>felt that they were uncommonly goodlooking for military vessels.
>In fact, on a country-by-country basis, I think the only better-
>looking naval ships are many of those built by the Soviets.

You and I have totally different concepts of naval beauty :-)

I believe the Ganguts were the ugliest ships ever built...

Paolo Pizzi
Cypress, CA


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4.  Ed Rudnicki  
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 Mais opções 2 out 1995, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: erudn...@pica.army.mil (Ed Rudnicki)
Data: 1995/10/02
Assunto: Re: Bikini Atoll

In article <44iuhi$...@crl9.crl.com> pi...@crl.com (Paolo Pizzi) writes:
>erudn...@pica.army.mil (Ed Rudnicki) writes:
>>PRINZ EUGEN ugly?? Sheesh!

>>I somehow ended up with a picture book on the CRossroads tests,
>>printed in the late '40's, and narrated by someone who was an active
>>participant. He repeatedly commented on how beautiful he thought PE
>>was. Also on how ugly he thought NAGATO was :)

>Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I guess someone can like even
>her ugliness the Rodnol, pardon Rodney ;-)

Hey! I like RODNOL and NELSOL! Oh, never mind.... :)

>IMHO as a general rule German ships=boxy, Japanese ships=uncommon/original

To take your "car" analogy and apply it to all three of the Axis
navies....

German: "Efficient-looking". Neither ugly nor particularly stylish.
Businesslike appearance matched by functional utility. Like M-B
cars.

Italian: Like their sports cars, ships are sleek and fast, but
fragile.

Japanese: Often weird-looking, yet they worked.

>But I understand why an American journalist couldn't appreciated
>originality :-)))

The author was actually a naval officer, and I suspect that
lingering animosity toward the Japanese colored his view a bit.

>Joking apart it's pretty obvious that a cruiser is sleeker than a
>battleship, especially an old one...

>However albeit a battleship the Roma was the sleekest ship ever :-)

I really should stay out of this, as I have a definite fondness for
the old French wing turret predreadnoughts (JAUREGUIBERRY, BOUVET,
etc.) and their aesthetic derivatives like USS BROOKLYN (Armored
Cruiser No. 3, not some pale post-Treaty imitation :).

Ed Rudnicki      
erudn...@pica.army.mil
Oculis numquam claudentibus    


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Constitution being refloated 26 Sept  
1.  "Ken Young"  
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 Mais opções 1 out 1995, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Ken Young")
Data: 1995/10/01
Assunto: Re: Constitution being refloated 26 Sept
> I can't say, but I say that black power is much more dangerous than
> smokeless powder and more corrosive.

I have to agree with that witness the precautions taken in powder mills
and  storage. Any ship or fort that was intended to use black powder had
a lamp passage as it was strictly forbidden to take lamps into the
magazine. Any one entering a magazine had to wear felt overshoes to cut
down the risk of sparks. Also for the same reason all the scales for
weighing charges were made of brass. One last problem is that any gun
firing black powder had to be washed out to remove the residue before the
next charge could be loaded

Ken Young
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk


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Theoretical Navies  
1.  paul d carrier  
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 Mais opções 1 out 1995, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: pa...@teleport.com (paul d carrier)
Data: 1995/10/01
Assunto: Re: Theoretical Navies
What i have noticed is that many of the suggestions have included ships
that
arn't yet available, also many of the theorietical navies have exceded the
30 ship limit.
with my choices i have tried to stick to ships recently decommissioned and
should be in
good repair.

a) 1 Iwo Jima class LPH (now decommissioned)
  airwing of:
   6 AH1 Cobra
   6 asw helo of your choice, dipping sonar prefered
   2 utility helo of your choice
   ? assault helo/troop carriers

b) 2 Charles F. Adams Class DDG (now decommissioned)
OR 2 Kidd Class DDG (if you can pry them from the USN) better choice !

c) 6 FFG-7
   w/ 2 asw helo of choice
   you don't need the towed sonar but the Sams could be handy :)

d) 4 SS
   the UK Oberon class may be the best SS avalable.
   Kilo's might be ok but think of spares and longevity. :)

e) 3 large FAC, as flotilla leaders
   i don't have a preference, something around 600 to 1000 tons
   isreali Saar V class ? the helo is nice for scouting.

f) 9 FAC, armed w/ Harpoons
   really have no particular class of ship in mind here,
   just need to be fast AND reliable !

g) 5 mine hunters/sweeps,
   check out the UK (can't think of the class name)

Naval Air:

h) 1 VP sqn. w/ 6 P-3c or Atlantic II or Nimrod
   for ocean patrol,ASW,EW

i) 1 Attack Helo sqn w/ 6 AH-1

j) 2 ASW helo sqn. w/ 12 (i like the) SH-60

just my theory :)

paul d. carrier      pa...@teleport.com


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2.  Andrew Toppan  
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 Mais opções 1 out 1995, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: el...@wpi.edu (Andrew Toppan)
Data: 1995/10/01
Assunto: Re: Theoretical Navies
paul d carrier (pa...@teleport.com) reshaped the electrons to say:

: with my choices i have tried to stick to ships recently decommissioned and
: should be in  good repair.

The problem is that the USN likes to demilitarize ships when striking
them, so they usually aren't serviceable.

: a) 1 Iwo Jima class LPH (now decommissioned)

Of the decommissioned ships, 3 have been demilitarized and are
useless, the other is going to the US Army.  The remaining ships
will be in service for a few more years.

: b) 2 Charles F. Adams Class DDG (now decommissioned)

All stripped, most sold for scrap.  None serviceable.

: OR 2 Kidd Class DDG (if you can pry them from the USN) better choice !

I somehow doubt the Navy would give these up.

--
Andrew Toppan --- el...@wpi.edu    --- http://www.wpi.edu/~elmer/
Railroads, Ships and Aircraft Homepage, Tom Clancy FAQ Archive
"I am Pentium of Borg. Arithmetic is irrelevant. Prepare to be approximated."


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Canadian Submarines?  
1.  Jay Martino  
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 Mais opções 1 out 1995, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: mjmart...@igs.net (Jay Martino)
Data: 1995/10/01
Assunto: Re: Canadian Submarines?

whal...@capitalnet.com.ca (Wayne Allen) wrote:
>amiin...@aol.com (AMI Inter) wrote:
>*What is the Canadaian Government doing about the UK Upholder Class Boats.

The deal may still go through, but the gov't has said we can't afford
them at this time, so we lose our right of first refusal.

>*It seems the Canadian Navy negotiated a terrific deal with the UK and the
>*Canadian Government is making them look like fools. Is this internal
>*politics between the Canadian Navy and the Parliament?

It was a terrific deal, but it still involved a large outlay, so it
became a small political football. Since the Navy got it's way with
the Frigates it became difficult for them to get any other new
equipment (like helos). Sometimes the Navy is it's own worst enemy
(look at how the EH-101 was handled).

>    Last we heard the negotiations are dead, never got beyond that stage.
>DND is now dropping the subs (stupid idea anyway) and concentrating on
>helicopters and APCs.
>--

Why stupid? Subs are a naval capability that we shouldn't lose. I feel
they're a lower priority than APCs and helos right now, but the old
"O" boats will have to be replaced sometime soon.
Jay
mjmart...@igs.net
Ottawa,Ontario

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2.  jgarland  
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 Mais opções 1 out 1995, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: jgarl...@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Data: 1995/10/01
Assunto: Re: Canadian Submarines?
In article <44ihs7$...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, sd...@ix.netcom.com (Scott D. Orr ) writes:

                ^^^^^^^^^
      USA cit living in Canada 15 yrs allowed???

Well yes, it is more complicated.  The present government got in on a
platform which included nixing large military "boondoggles" (like replacing
the 30 year old naval helicopter fleet).  They also caused no end of trouble
when the previous gov't floated a "trial balloon" about buying a nuke or 2
"to protect Canadian sovereignty in the far north" about 7? years ago or so.

It's a little hard now to go to out and buy necessary hardware as it makes
them look like fools...better to let a few helicopter pilots die and let
the USN patrol the Arctic, right?

Lastly, the submarine force is in the news now in a rather negative light:  
a skipper is being court martialed for, among other things, inserting a
cigar up a Royal Navy (UK) officer's ass who was sleeping things off
in the wardroom after a particularly drunken party on board. Apparently
the captain treated his crew about the same for 2 years that we know about.  
This doesn't help really even though it ought to be side issue, of course.

Hope this helps...

John Garland
jgarl...@kean.ucs.mun.ca

BTW are there skippers like this in the USN???  :-)  I'm just an ex-USAF
brat.  Don't know much about the navy.


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3.  Alexander E McClearn  
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 Mais opções 2 out 1995, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: sci.military.naval
De: mccle...@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Alexander E McClearn)
Data: 1995/10/02
Assunto: Re: Canadian Submarines?

AMI Inter (amiin...@aol.com) wrote:
> What is the Canadaian Government doing about the UK Upholder Class Boats.
> It seems the Canadian Navy negotiated a terrific deal with the UK and the
> Canadian Government is making them look like fools. Is this internal
> politics between the Canadian Navy and the Parliament?

No, it's just the government being fools. Half of them really don't know
what is going on outside their own constituencies and think we don't need
them. The defence minister says things are still on the rails, and the
Brits (thank god) still seem to want to sell them to us. So hopefully,
the Government will get off their lazy butts and actually _do_ something.
In the end, it is just the Liberals trying to keep the general populace
happy, without caring about the poor sods who actually have to use the
subs.

Just my $0.02.
--
Sandy
                        ) _
<Alexander McClearn>  T_|_|__!     mccle...@newton.ccs.tuns.ca      
                        [/]                                ____.____  %


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