Worst job by referee
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Worst job by referee  
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1.  Pandit Harish  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 1996, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: rec.sport.boxing
De: hpan...@watson.den.csci.csc.com (Pandit Harish)
Data: 1996/05/01
Assunto: Re: Worst job by referee

Cliff Blair (bl...@koop.coph.usf.edu) wrote:

: I'm not as knowledgable about boxing as most members of this group but do
: enjoy the sport. I recall a fight quite some years ago now, in which one
: fighter clearly knocked the other down about 6 or 8 times. The ref called
: each of the knockdowns "slips" even though the knocked down fighter was
: staggering all over the ring. I believe the ref eventually lost his license
: because of this.
:  I was just wondering about other examples of a really bad job by a ref. I
:  mean some established ref, not one no ones ever heard of.

: --
: cliff blair
: bl...@koop.coph.usf.edu

: *********************************************
: * If this were truly a logical world,  it   *
: * would have been men who rode side saddle. *
: *********************************************

The worst job by a ref took place somewhere in the 1930's. I do not remember
the name of the ref or any of the fighters clearly, but one i think the
champion was named Ad Wolgast or something. During the fight, both the fighters
were knocked down at the same time. The ref helped the champion up with one
hand and at the same time counted the other boxer out. The photographs of this
incident are available in a book published by the Ring Magazine.

It is still amusing to note that even today the decision still stands.


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2.  Sanity Cruzer  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 1996, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: rec.sport.boxing
De: Sanity Cruzer <sntyc...@cruzio.com>
Data: 1996/05/01
Assunto: Re: Worst job by referee

jbla...@ix.netcom.com(Joel Black) wrote:

>>He really is the worst,his wife Barbra is a decent judge however.
>>                                                                Dave

>Come on Dave and Mike,
>Perez is terrible but Joey Curtis and the senile old guy from Louisiana
>have him all beat to hell.
>Joel

Joel, I agree.  Joey Curtis was crap.  I never understood how anyone could
justify his being in the ring.

                             The Sanity Cruzer


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3.  DeLisa1066  
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 Mais opções 2 maio 1996, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: rec.sport.boxing
De: delisa1...@aol.com (DeLisa1066)
Data: 1996/05/02
Assunto: Re: Worst job by referee

It's funny that is what Perez seems to be most remembered for.  I 'know'
him as a referee who is out of position when he needs to be ready to
intervene between a beaten fighter and the eventual winner.  Didn't he
referee the Morisson-Mercer fight?

Absolutely  -- and he just did a couple of others where he was out of
position, including the David Tua fight.  Mike


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4.  David M. Murphy  
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 Mais opções 3 maio 1996, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: rec.sport.boxing
De: dmurp...@ix.netcom.com(David M. Murphy)
Data: 1996/05/03
Assunto: Re: Worst job by referee

In <4maq04$...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> delisa1...@aol.com (DeLisa1066)
writes:

>It's funny that is what Perez seems to be most remembered for.  I
'know'
>him as a referee who is out of position when he needs to be ready to
>intervene between a beaten fighter and the eventual winner.  Didn't he
>referee the Morisson-Mercer fight?

>Absolutely  -- and he just did a couple of others where he was out of
>position, including the David Tua fight.  Mike

 It brings us to the question:Has Tony Perez ever been IN position
during his entire career....usually he's a Grand Canyon hike away
from the action.
                Dave

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5.  B.K. Momchilov  
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 Mais opções 2 maio 1996, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: rec.sport.boxing
De: b...@hiwaay.net (B.K. Momchilov)
Data: 1996/05/02
Assunto: Re: Worst job by referee

I suppose no list of "bad referees" would be complete without
mentioning the incompetent work of Jersey Joe Wolcott during the
Ali/Liston rematch in Lewiston, Maine on May 25, 1965.

A case can also be made that the timekeeper, Frank McDonough was also
incompetent.  Nevertheless, until Ring editor Nat Fleischer caught
Wolcott's attention and shouted, "Joe, the fight's over!!"  Wolcott
was clueless.

I guess we could excuse Wolcott's inepititude given the fact that
Ali's "punch" to Liston's head was suspect.  This point will be
debated forever...

Just my opinion.

Brian K. Momchilov

P.S.

IMHO, the best "new" referee in the pro's:  Elmo Adolph.


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Any thoughts on Hagler vs Leonard!!!  
1.  Angus I.G.Ramsay  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 1996, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: rec.sport.boxing
De: "Angus I.G.Ramsay" <u01a...@abdn.ac.uk>
Data: 1996/05/01
Assunto: Re: Any thoughts on Hagler vs Leonard!!!

Well said on the "over-the-hill" front; Hagler really had the stuffing
knocked out of him against Mugabi; to be honest, a return between Hagler
and Hearns after the Mugabi bout would have been a fifty-fifty pick'em,
in my view.
I also believe, however, that Hagler had done enough to hold on to his
title in the Leonard fight, having almost total control after the first
four or so rounds. Add to this the fact that he seemed to (deep breath)
take it easy on Leonard in comparison to the fury he had shown against
other challengers he had faced, and its clear who should have won. The
fact that one judge gave what might be termed a "non-ballpark" score in
favour of Leonard and that the other judge who gave the fight to Leonard
was, it turned out, in some way connected to Leonard, takes away greatly
from the true achievement of Leonard that night: he stayed on his feet.
                                Angus

P.S. Watch Dr.Who; Dr.Who is good for you!


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2.  SCOTT D PINSKER  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 1996, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: rec.sport.boxing
De: PINSK...@vax1.acs.jmu.edu (SCOTT D PINSKER)
Data: 1996/05/01
Assunto: Re: Any thoughts on Hagler vs Leonard!!!

In <hreed.43.00147...@pps2-po.phyp.uiowa.edu> hr...@pps2-po.phyp.uiowa.edu writes:
>  Eric Michael Creizman <em...@columbia.edu> writes:

> >> Hagler wanted a rematch for quite some time, but much like the rest of the
> >> fighters who Leonard beat, wouldn't get it, or would get it 8 years later...
> >> The money was there, the desire by MMH was there, the desire from RL
> >> wasn't...

> >That is false, Heath. Leonard has repeatedly said he would have given
> >Hagler a rematch. Hagler never raised the issue seriously.

> Leonard repeatedly said this?  Wow, when, and where?  Or was it, "My people
> will contact your people..."  I sure don't remember Leonard, publicly or
> privately, ever saying this.  And Hagler never raised it seriously?  Whew, I
> too befuddled to even argue with that...

I read or heard somewhere (I drink too much and my memory is shot)
that Leonard has RECENTLY talked to Hagler about a rematch, but
Marvin is enjoying retirement.

Incidently, a friend of mine ran into Hagler during his honeymoon last
August.  He said Hagler was extremely quiet and not too friendly.

Marv gave him an autograph, though.  

By the way, the above Hagler tale is my attempt to look important and
popular even though I'm kinda goofy (although I did, a year ago,
get a collect phone call from Joe Frazier.  True story.)

-Scott D. Pinsker


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3.  Big D at SC  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 1996, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: rec.sport.boxing
De: ddmac...@cats.ucsc.edu (Big D at SC)
Data: 1996/05/01
Assunto: Re: Any thoughts on Hagler vs Leonard!!!

> >The angle I heard was the Marvin was very bitter about, not just the
> >defeat, but at the way the boxing powers that be had treated him
> >throughout his career.  He felt that he had been unfairly judged and could
> >never rely on winning a decision, so he had to knock his opponents out
> >every time, etc.  This kind of thing.

> Yeah, Marvin was pretty bitter about quite a few things, if I remember
> correctly.  It's probably what enabled him to become a top middleweight, his
> ability to channel whatever anger he had into the ring.

Yes, I recall that he really needed to build up a great dislike for his
opponents in order to have that killer instinct.  I recall seeing film of
him training for a fight where he would be repeating his opponents name
over and over again, and imagining this guy taking food out of the mouths
of his family.   The issue was raised that he really had trouble doing
that with Ray, especially since Marvin was the one who put the challenge
to Ray to come out of retirement and give him this big money fight.

> He seems to have much the same temperment that Monzon had in the ring,
> although their boxing styles weren't the same, nor has Marvin been jailed for
> killing his ex-girlfriend (that I know of).
>>Blink<<

Hmm... I guess this is a reference to Monzon having killed his
ex-girlfriend?  I wasn't aware of that.

> Yep, I'd agree that Marvin felt he needed to KO everyone, probably stemming
> from that Antuofermo draw back in '78?

Now THAT I can agree with you about.  He was beating the heck out of the
guy, and they gave him a draw.  That had to be one of the worst decisions
I ever saw.

> >No, I never heard of Hagler screaming for a rematch with Leonard.

> Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.  My take on this
> was that Hagler wanted one for about six months, then just got disgusted with
> the delays and retired for good.

Well, this could be true, and I'm not really interested in disputing it,
but as I say, that was not my take on it.  I, at least, never heard it put
this way.  UNTIL NOW!!!

> Gotta give the man credit for staying retired.

Absolutely.  Plus, he is one of the greatest middleweights of all time.

> I'm getting the feeling that we aren't gonna see eye-to-eye on this,
> so I'm just gonna let it go.  Whatcha say?  :-)

Sure.  Don't take this stuff too seriously anyway.  Just a little mental
fencing, as I like to call it.

Keep 'em comin'!

Big D at SC


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4.  Halhiker  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 1996, 04:00
Grupos de notícias: rec.sport.boxing
De: halhi...@aol.com (Halhiker)
Data: 1996/05/01
Assunto: Re: Any thoughts on Hagler vs Leonard!!!

In article
<Pine.SUN.3.91.960429195638.22219K-100...@kiaora.cc.columbia.edu>, Eric

Michael Creizman <em...@columbia.edu> writes:
>That is false, Heath. Leonard has repeatedly said he would have given
>Hagler a rematch. Hagler never raised the issue seriously.

Gee, I remember him calling for one on the Today show and on many other
programs as well. And SRL wanted no part of it.  He gave up his titles
(those that MMH held dear and and fought to defend all those years) and
said he was again retired.  Ray didn't bring up the idea of a rematch
until much later, after MMH had  been out of the game for many years

Halhi...@aol.com (Hal Summers)


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5.  pliesenberg  
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 Mais opções 1 maio 1996, 04:00
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De: pliesenb...@bix.com (pliesenberg)
Data: 1996/05/01
Assunto: Re: Any thoughts on Hagler vs Leonard!!!

".. And SRL wanted no part of it.  He gave up his titles
(those that MMH held dear and and fought to defend all those years) and
said he was again retired.  Ray didn't bring up the idea of a rematch
until much later, after MMH had  been out of the game for many years
.."

That's indeed the way it was.

...paul


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