Obviosly Scott Anthony Rick likes making love to men ... ;-)

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|> Public flames welcome.

: > It's no surprise that very early in the life of this discussion group the
: > subject of homosexuality would emerge.

: I disagree. It a VERY BIG SURPRISE that homosexuality emerged. It's a
: suprise that sexuality emerged. This is rec.sport.boxing not rec.sport.sex.
: Do a Request for Discussion if it doesnt exist.

: >Joyce Carol Oates, in her excellent
: > book "On Boxing", referred to the homoerotic aspect of this sport. I don't
: > think one has to be gay, or a woman, to see this. And IMHO, part of the
: > interest in boxing for a lot of men, both participants and spectators, is
: > a sublimated form of homoeroticism.

Her *excellent* book?  That was one of the more goofy books I have read
in quite some time.  Besides the fact that she more stressed the
elemental beauty/savagery or boxing rather than any homoerotic aspects of
the sport.  Frankly, I find it a VERY BIG SURPRISE
(to quote my very correct fellow newsgroup dweller above) that
Joyce Carol Oates is brought up in a discussion about boxing.  Her
pontifications about boxing were somewhat obscure, and fairly reeked of
someone stretching to sound deep.  I found a couple of her observations
curious and interesting, (especially since it gave me some perspective of
how folks who like boxing but have never done it could view the sport) -
However, if she had stopped trying to make her book some sort of
literary analog to a piece of modern art that could
be read aloud at some "socially cutting edge" party, perhaps her
observations would have been of more value.  

: I find myself wanting to explore my feminine side when watching a fighter
: beat the living crap outa someone. [insert Beevis and Butthead laugh here]

Actually I NEVER find myself wanting to explore my feminine side :->

: >  
: > Also, not all gay men find boxing to be sick or barbaric. Some of us even
: > box, myself included.

: Well good for you! [geez who pulled your chain?]

Geeze!! I wish this up to now short (but oh too long) "make sex not
boxing" (now being modified to a "make sex AND boxing") thread would
end.  I would suggest this be posted to any one of the several pro and
con homosexuality groups.  I would crosspost this, but I am afraid it
would just invite more participants to enter into a discussion regarding
this HERE.

        It wasn't until I watched the HBO replay that I realized
        what happened.  This was not Holyfield vs Moore but rather
        Moore vs a weary maybe even sick Evander Holyfield.
        Anyone who has followed Holyfield's career could tell
        something was definitely wrong with Evander friday night.
        Holyfield would have lost to almost anybody that night.
        Someone just needed to show up and throw punches. I'm not
        making excuses for Holyfield but let's not give credit to
        Moorer when credit isn't due.

        I think Holyfield would have lost any of his former title
        defenses if he would have been in the condition he was in friday.
        (maybe with the exception of Larry Holmes.)
        Foreman would have had many opportunities for a knock out through
        out the night. Bert Cooper would have had enough killer instinct
        to finish Holyfield off, after seeing him in the condition he was in.
        Bowe certainly would have KO'd Holyfield.  Michael Moorer just
        happened to be the one scheduled to fight Holyfield this time.
        And I don't disagree with the HBO announcers when they said things
        like "where is the desire" about Moore.  Holyfield was in a
        deteriorated state either from health reasons or Moorers punches
        or both, and Moorer should have been going for the knock out.
        Comparisons between Moorer and Tyson are ridiculous. Tyson would
        have had the killer instinct to finish off a fighter in Holyfield's
        state in the 5th or 6th round.

        Even Teddy Atlas realized this wasn't the same Holyfield when
        he said things like "there is something wrong with this guy",
        "He's finished" and something like if you don't beat him the
        next guy will. It wasn't that Moorer punched Holyfield into this
        groggy wobbly state, I think Atlas definitely realized this
        wasn't the usual Evander Holyfield and taking the title would
        be like taking candy from a baby.

        This Holyfield was a lethargic, wobbly and weak boxer, who
        seemed to be deteriorating as the fight went on whether or
        not he was getting hit. Holyfield looked as tired in the 3rd
        round as he usually looks in the 9th or 10th round.
        Holyfield's trademarks were always his super energy and high
        percentage of punches thrown per round.  Holyfield was never
        a super powerful puncher who would devastate his opponents.
        Instead Holyfield would get into the ring with equally talented
        boxers like Moorer and beat them with an energetic 8 or more
        rounds of boxing, where he would always be sure to throw a higher
        percentage of punches than his opponent and would increase the
        pace of the fight just past what his opponents could handle.
        Holyfield would throw 7 or 8-punch combinations where he was
        putting so much effort into his punches his feet would come
        off the canvas. This Holyfield would have beaten Moorer. Friday
        night he was mustering up all he had just to throw 3 or 4-punch
        combinations every once in a while. Holyfield was getting to
        Moorer with the straight right whenever he threw it, but he just
        didn't have the energy to throw it enough. A younger Holyfield
        would have.

        Watching friday night's fight was almost as heartbreaking as
        watching Muhammed Ali vs. Larry Holmes. Larry Holmes did not beat
        "The Greatest" that night. And Moorer did not beat the "Real Deal"
        friday night.  He beat a vestige of Holyfield's former self.

        Even so, Holyfield fought a rugged 12 round fight and did all he
        could do. Holyfield brought only one thing into this fight -
        courage, and a boxer needs more than that to succeed.

        So then, he must retire.