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On 7 Nov, 23:27, "Mr.Will" <w...@mr-will.co.uk> wrote:
> Scott Gilfoid of boxingnews24.com predicted a humiliation of Haye - such is > his hatred of UK fighters!
> Thats almost as satisfying as the victory for David!
Should have been 118-110 at least. To Valuev's credit though, it is obviously going to take a proper superheavyweight to knock him out. Haye hurt his hand trying to do this.
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 16:39:18 -0800 (PST), Mike Hall <tar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 7 Nov, 23:27, "Mr.Will" <w...@mr-will.co.uk> wrote: >> Scott Gilfoid of boxingnews24.com predicted a humiliation of Haye - such is >> his hatred of UK fighters!
>> Thats almost as satisfying as the victory for David!
>Should have been 118-110 at least. To Valuev's credit though, it is >obviously going to take a proper superheavyweight to knock him out. >Haye hurt his hand trying to do this.
>Mike Hall
Let's get on with the show. There is something about a David vs Goliath that attracts the paying fans.
On 2009-11-07 23:55:47 +0100, Dan L <HeyHey...@charter.net> said:
> whooopdy doo
YES - we might have a new classic fight. What Holyfield couldn't do, the "little" brit did very well, after a mean namecalling lead up to the match, Haye did exactly what he should do. The huge russian monster may be history, and David Haye are the new king.
It will be very interesting to see him in a match with another 100 kg fighter.
The fight reminded me of when I saw Andre The Giant against Hulk Hogan when I was young. Not that wrestling is a real fight, but it was fun anyway (and then I found out it was all an act *lol*)
Nice to see Valuev could loose in Sauerland country
I wonder what fight the spanish ref was watching ;-)
>On 2009-11-07 23:55:47 +0100, Dan L <HeyHey...@charter.net> said:
>> whooopdy doo
>YES - we might have a new classic fight. >What Holyfield couldn't do, the "little" brit did very well, after a >mean namecalling lead up to the match, Haye did exactly what he should >do. >The huge russian monster may be history, and David Haye are the new king.
>It will be very interesting to see him in a match with another 100 kg fighter.
>The fight reminded me of when I saw Andre The Giant against Hulk Hogan >when I was young. >Not that wrestling is a real fight, but it was fun anyway (and then I >found out it was all an act *lol*)
>Nice to see Valuev could loose in Sauerland country
>I wonder what fight the spanish ref was watching ;-)
I was astonished at his ability to retain 100% concentration for 12 rounds.
As Chagaev did, he kept the distance and allowed the monster to plod. He didn't do too much, but how the hell can you against that kind of size difference? In the 11th (or was it the 12th?) he actually had Valuev senseless for about a few seconds!
A wonderful and well disciplined performance and how the hell one judge had it even is anyones guess.
Haye delivered. And confounded my predictions which i tried to withdraw in the pub after the first bell. Only seeing them in the ring did I realise that there was no way in hell Haye could knock him out. I thought a 4th round KO for Haye or a Valuev points win. Like a lot of people I assumed that Haye would tire and get caught. But here goes kudos to Valuev : he did not try to spoil the fight and lean on Haye to sap his energy. The ref also did his bit to stop any unnecessary hugging.
Interestingly enough, I think Valuev boxed the best I ever saw him. Controlled, high guard and a fast dangerous jab. Haye allowed him to plod around hitting air hoping that professional judges only count punches that land.
And, thank god, another urban myth smashed about "you cant win a points decision in germany".
Well done David Haye!!!!!!!!!!
And one more thing!
He will take out the brothers!
I did not see them at ring side interestingly enough? having said that, I was pissed as a newt :-;
On Nov 8, 2:38 am, Walter Mitty <mitti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Haye delivered. And confounded my predictions which i tried to withdraw > in the pub after the first bell. Only seeing them in the ring did I > realise that there was no way in hell Haye could knock him out. I > thought a 4th round KO for Haye or a Valuev points win. Like a lot of > people I assumed that Haye would tire and get caught. But here goes > kudos to Valuev : he did not try to spoil the fight and lean on Haye to > sap his energy. The ref also did his bit to stop any unnecessary > hugging.
> Interestingly enough, I think Valuev boxed the best I ever saw > him.
I'm with you on this one. Valuev did seem motivated this time around.
>Controlled, high guard and a fast dangerous jab. Haye allowed him > to plod around hitting air hoping that professional judges only count > punches that land.
> And, thank god, another urban myth smashed about "you cant win a points > decision in germany".
> Well done David Haye!!!!!!!!!!
Hmm...I have to watch it again...it was o..k..I guess I expected more from Haye..but I do give Haye props for being only the 2nd fighter to defeat the giant. And the first to rock him..even if it was for a few secs.
<pa...@simplyhombre.net> wrote: >On Nov 7, 4:50 pm, ne...@millions.com wrote: >> Let's get on with the show. There is something about a David vs >> Goliath that attracts the paying fans.
>> DCI
> did you pay for the PPV??? i certainly didn't... :-)
At my age, when I get a grip on the US one dollar bill, George Washington spits his teeth out.
> "Mr.Will" <w...@mr-will.co.uk> writes: > > Scott Gilfoid of boxingnews24.com predicted a humiliation of Haye - such is > > his hatred of UK fighters!
> > Thats almost as satisfying as the victory for David!
> I was astonished at his ability to retain 100% concentration for 12 > rounds.
> As Chagaev did, he kept the distance and allowed the monster to plod. He > didn't do too much, but how the hell can you against that kind of size > difference? In the 11th (or was it the 12th?) he actually had Valuev > senseless for about a few seconds!
> A wonderful and well disciplined performance and how the hell one judge > had it even is anyones guess.
> Haye delivered. And confounded my predictions which i tried to withdraw > in the pub after the first bell. Only seeing them in the ring did I > realise that there was no way in hell Haye could knock him out. I > thought a 4th round KO for Haye or a Valuev points win. Like a lot of > people I assumed that Haye would tire and get caught. But here goes > kudos to Valuev : he did not try to spoil the fight and lean on Haye to > sap his energy. The ref also did his bit to stop any unnecessary > hugging.
> Interestingly enough, I think Valuev boxed the best I ever saw > him. Controlled, high guard and a fast dangerous jab. Haye allowed him > to plod around hitting air hoping that professional judges only count > punches that land.
> And, thank god, another urban myth smashed about "you cant win a points > decision in germany".
> Well done David Haye!!!!!!!!!!
> And one more thing!
> He will take out the brothers!
Haye will take Wlad and Vitali out to dinner? How courteous.
Just as long as he doesn't get in the ring against either. If he does, the Hayemaker will need an undertaker.
>On Nov 8, 2:38 am, Walter Mitty <mitti...@gmail.com> wrote: >> "Mr.Will" <w...@mr-will.co.uk> writes: >> > Scott Gilfoid of boxingnews24.com predicted a humiliation of Haye - such is >> > his hatred of UK fighters!
>> > Thats almost as satisfying as the victory for David!
>> I was astonished at his ability to retain 100% concentration for 12 >> rounds.
>> As Chagaev did, he kept the distance and allowed the monster to plod. He >> didn't do too much, but how the hell can you against that kind of size >> difference? In the 11th (or was it the 12th?) he actually had Valuev >> senseless for about a few seconds!
>> A wonderful and well disciplined performance and how the hell one judge >> had it even is anyones guess.
>> Haye delivered. And confounded my predictions which i tried to withdraw >> in the pub after the first bell. Only seeing them in the ring did I >> realise that there was no way in hell Haye could knock him out. I >> thought a 4th round KO for Haye or a Valuev points win. Like a lot of >> people I assumed that Haye would tire and get caught. But here goes >> kudos to Valuev : he did not try to spoil the fight and lean on Haye to >> sap his energy. The ref also did his bit to stop any unnecessary >> hugging.
>> Interestingly enough, I think Valuev boxed the best I ever saw >> him. Controlled, high guard and a fast dangerous jab. Haye allowed him >> to plod around hitting air hoping that professional judges only count >> punches that land.
>> And, thank god, another urban myth smashed about "you cant win a points >> decision in germany".
>> Well done David Haye!!!!!!!!!!
>> And one more thing!
>> He will take out the brothers!
>Haye will take Wlad and Vitali out to dinner? How courteous.
>Just as long as he doesn't get in the ring against either. If he does, >the Hayemaker will need an undertaker.
More like taking the Klitscko brothers out for a cheap beakfast at McDonalds'!!! He'll sleep through the night and the brothers don't take in unhealthy foods.
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 12:17:37 -0800 (PST), "D. Flynn" <gu...@msn.com> > wrote:
>>On Nov 8, 2:38 am, Walter Mitty <mitti...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> "Mr.Will" <w...@mr-will.co.uk> writes: >>> > Scott Gilfoid of boxingnews24.com predicted a humiliation of Haye - >>> > such is >>> > his hatred of UK fighters!
>>> > Thats almost as satisfying as the victory for David!
>>> I was astonished at his ability to retain 100% concentration for 12 >>> rounds.
>>> As Chagaev did, he kept the distance and allowed the monster to plod. He >>> didn't do too much, but how the hell can you against that kind of size >>> difference? In the 11th (or was it the 12th?) he actually had Valuev >>> senseless for about a few seconds!
>>> A wonderful and well disciplined performance and how the hell one judge >>> had it even is anyones guess.
>>> Haye delivered. And confounded my predictions which i tried to withdraw >>> in the pub after the first bell. Only seeing them in the ring did I >>> realise that there was no way in hell Haye could knock him out. I >>> thought a 4th round KO for Haye or a Valuev points win. Like a lot of >>> people I assumed that Haye would tire and get caught. But here goes >>> kudos to Valuev : he did not try to spoil the fight and lean on Haye to >>> sap his energy. The ref also did his bit to stop any unnecessary >>> hugging.
>>> Interestingly enough, I think Valuev boxed the best I ever saw >>> him. Controlled, high guard and a fast dangerous jab. Haye allowed him >>> to plod around hitting air hoping that professional judges only count >>> punches that land.
>>> And, thank god, another urban myth smashed about "you cant win a points >>> decision in germany".
>>> Well done David Haye!!!!!!!!!!
>>> And one more thing!
>>> He will take out the brothers!
>>Haye will take Wlad and Vitali out to dinner? How courteous.
>>Just as long as he doesn't get in the ring against either. If he does, >>the Hayemaker will need an undertaker.
> More like taking the Klitscko brothers out for a cheap beakfast at > McDonalds'!!! He'll sleep through the night and the brothers don't > take in unhealthy foods.
> DCI
Yes, like everything else they won't take any "unnecessary" risks. Im sure they even have the streets cleared in NYC before even dreaming to attempt crossing the road. Sure, it may take several days to accomplish the task that they could have done in a couple of minutes, but you know what, they took no unncessary risks, so they can be applauded - not so much for facing their fear of, well, pretty much anything, but finding a way around it.
pablo <pa...@simplyhombre.net> writes: > On Nov 7, 4:50 pm, ne...@millions.com wrote: >> Let's get on with the show. There is something about a David vs >> Goliath that attracts the paying fans.
>> DCI
> did you pay for the PPV??? i certainly didn't... :-)
Free on german TV.
Great fight if you enjoy boxing as opposed to "show boating".
On Nov 10, 9:15 am, Walter Mitty <mitti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> pablo <pa...@simplyhombre.net> writes: > > On Nov 7, 4:50 pm, ne...@millions.com wrote: > >> Let's get on with the show. There is something about a David vs > >> Goliath that attracts the paying fans.
> >> DCI
> > did you pay for the PPV??? i certainly didn't... :-)
> Free on german TV.
> Great fight if you enjoy boxing as opposed to "show boating".
> -- > Rum, Sodomy And The Lash. Join The Royal Navy.
It was a lousy fight. You're obviously a big enough fan of Haye that you found it entertaining, but everyone I knew thought it was an exceptionally boring fight.
It's kind of strange, because Haye's fights are normally entertaining, and Valuev's are always boring, but in this case Haye was the one making the fight suck. Valuev looked much better than in his last fight, and actually seemed to want to engage.
Nonetheless, I don't blame Haye for taking the actions he did - he wanted to win, found a way to win, and executed his plan well. But he won't have made any fans.
The scores were all over the place. Some of the UK papers thought that Haye won every round but one, Jim Watt gave it to Valuev, and one judge had a draw. I had Haye in a close-but-not-too-close victory. I was pleasantly surprised when Haye got the decision, because Valuev has won fights as close as this one before.
So little happened that it was hard to score. Haye landed the only good punches, but Valuev came forward. How do you score a round in which one fighter is coming forward landing nothing and the other goes backward but lands one punch? Different judges interpret this stuff differently.
> pablo <pa...@simplyhombre.net> writes: > > On Nov 7, 4:50 pm, ne...@millions.com wrote: > >> Let's get on with the show. There is something about a David vs > >> Goliath that attracts the paying fans.
> >> DCI
> > did you pay for the PPV??? i certainly didn't... :-)
> Free on german TV.
> Great fight if you enjoy boxing as opposed to "show boating".
> -- > Rum, Sodomy And The Lash. Join The Royal Navy.
It was a lousy fight. You're obviously a big enough fan of Haye that you found it entertaining, but everyone I knew thought it was an exceptionally boring fight.
It's kind of strange, because Haye's fights are normally entertaining, and Valuev's are always boring, but in this case Haye was the one making the fight suck. Valuev looked much better than in his last fight, and actually seemed to want to engage.
Nonetheless, I don't blame Haye for taking the actions he did - he wanted to win, found a way to win, and executed his plan well. But he won't have made any fans.
The scores were all over the place. Some of the UK papers thought that Haye won every round but one, Jim Watt gave it to Valuev, and one judge had a draw. I had Haye in a close-but-not-too-close victory. I was pleasantly surprised when Haye got the decision, because Valuev has won fights as close as this one before.
So little happened that it was hard to score. Haye landed the only good punches, but Valuev came forward. How do you score a round in which one fighter is coming forward landing nothing and the other goes backward but lands one punch? Different judges interpret this stuff differently. ----------- Yes, I too thought the fight was quite poor. Haye doing what he had to in order to win, Valuev being very limited. Was happy to see Haye get the victory - Jim Watt however was panicking all the way through "the judges, the judges, oh my the judges" he seemed to say every couple of seconds, then score a round as if he were a "German judge unwilling to credit Haye". Despite him giving the victory to Valuev it was only by one round.
As for the scoring, I think its about what is effective, and while you're right about so little happening in terms of activity in this instance the fighter coming forward really could do nothing in terms of setting the pace, controlling distance, making the fight go to his terms etc. Haye lands only a couple of punches, but Valuev lands none! The Froch Dirrell fight was different because neither actually managed anything. It was as dull as this one though admittedly!
> > pablo <pa...@simplyhombre.net> writes: > > > On Nov 7, 4:50 pm, ne...@millions.com wrote: > > >> Let's get on with the show. There is something about a David vs > > >> Goliath that attracts the paying fans.
> > >> DCI
> > > did you pay for the PPV??? i certainly didn't... :-)
> > Free on german TV.
> > Great fight if you enjoy boxing as opposed to "show boating".
> > -- > > Rum, Sodomy And The Lash. Join The Royal Navy.
> It was a lousy fight. You're obviously a big enough fan of Haye that > you found it entertaining, but everyone I knew thought it was an > exceptionally boring fight.
> It's kind of strange, because Haye's fights are normally entertaining, > and Valuev's are always boring, but in this case Haye was the one > making the fight suck. Valuev looked much better than in his last > fight, and actually seemed to want to engage.
> Nonetheless, I don't blame Haye for taking the actions he did - he > wanted to win, found a way to win, and executed his plan well. But he > won't have made any fans.
> The scores were all over the place. Some of the UK papers thought that > Haye won every round but one, Jim Watt gave it to Valuev, and one > judge had a draw. I had Haye in a close-but-not-too-close victory. I > was pleasantly surprised when Haye got the decision, because Valuev > has won fights as close as this one before.
> So little happened that it was hard to score. Haye landed the only > good punches, but Valuev came forward. How do you score a round in > which one fighter is coming forward landing nothing and the other goes > backward but lands one punch? Different judges interpret this stuff > differently. > ----------- > Yes, I too thought the fight was quite poor. Haye doing what he had to in > order to win, Valuev being very limited. > Was happy to see Haye get the victory - Jim Watt however was panicking all > the way through "the judges, the judges, oh my the judges" he seemed to say > every couple of seconds, then score a round as if he were a "German judge > unwilling to credit Haye".
They were international judges though, weren't they?
> Despite him giving the victory to Valuev it was > only by one round.
> As for the scoring, I think its about what is effective, and while you're > right about so little happening in terms of activity in this instance the > fighter coming forward really could do nothing in terms of setting the pace, > controlling distance, making the fight go to his terms etc. Haye lands only > a couple of punches, but Valuev lands none!
Yes, I had Haye the winner because I basically score rounds to the person who is most effective in landing punches. "Effective aggression" being the key phrase.
But not all judges do that. Some judges will score inactive rounds to the person moving forward even if he lands one or two less punches. Haye's risk management strategy, while it completely mitigated his risks of being knocked out, came with substantial risk of losing the decision, so I'm not sure in retrospect that it was a good one.
5016 <huwgar...@my-deja.com> writes: > On Nov 10, 9:15 am, Walter Mitty <mitti...@gmail.com> wrote: >> pablo <pa...@simplyhombre.net> writes: >> > On Nov 7, 4:50 pm, ne...@millions.com wrote: >> >> Let's get on with the show. There is something about a David vs >> >> Goliath that attracts the paying fans.
>> >> DCI
>> > did you pay for the PPV??? i certainly didn't... :-)
>> Free on german TV.
>> Great fight if you enjoy boxing as opposed to "show boating".
>> -- >> Rum, Sodomy And The Lash. Join The Royal Navy.
> It was a lousy fight. You're obviously a big enough fan of Haye that > you found it entertaining, but everyone I knew thought it was an > exceptionally boring fight.
I'm not a that big a fan of Haye.
I enjoyed it because of his tactics.
> It's kind of strange, because Haye's fights are normally entertaining, > and Valuev's are always boring, but in this case Haye was the one > making the fight suck. Valuev looked much better than in his last > fight, and actually seemed to want to engage.
I wonder why? Could it be because he is 7 stone heavier?
> > pablo <pa...@simplyhombre.net> writes: > > > On Nov 7, 4:50 pm, ne...@millions.com wrote: > > >> Let's get on with the show. There is something about a David vs > > >> Goliath that attracts the paying fans.
> > >> DCI
> > > did you pay for the PPV??? i certainly didn't... :-)
> > Free on german TV.
> > Great fight if you enjoy boxing as opposed to "show boating".
> > -- > > Rum, Sodomy And The Lash. Join The Royal Navy.
> It was a lousy fight. You're obviously a big enough fan of Haye that > you found it entertaining, but everyone I knew thought it was an > exceptionally boring fight.
> It's kind of strange, because Haye's fights are normally entertaining, > and Valuev's are always boring, but in this case Haye was the one > making the fight suck. Valuev looked much better than in his last > fight, and actually seemed to want to engage.
> Nonetheless, I don't blame Haye for taking the actions he did - he > wanted to win, found a way to win, and executed his plan well. But he > won't have made any fans.
> The scores were all over the place. Some of the UK papers thought that > Haye won every round but one, Jim Watt gave it to Valuev, and one > judge had a draw. I had Haye in a close-but-not-too-close victory. I > was pleasantly surprised when Haye got the decision, because Valuev > has won fights as close as this one before.
> So little happened that it was hard to score. Haye landed the only > good punches, but Valuev came forward. How do you score a round in > which one fighter is coming forward landing nothing and the other goes > backward but lands one punch? Different judges interpret this stuff > differently. > ----------- > Yes, I too thought the fight was quite poor. Haye doing what he had to in > order to win, Valuev being very limited. > Was happy to see Haye get the victory - Jim Watt however was panicking all > the way through "the judges, the judges, oh my the judges" he seemed to > say > every couple of seconds, then score a round as if he were a "German judge > unwilling to credit Haye".
They were international judges though, weren't they? ---------
I'm not saying he was right by any means, Im saying he panicked and firmly believed that Haye had to KO the guy to get a draw.
> Despite him giving the victory to Valuev it was > only by one round.
> As for the scoring, I think its about what is effective, and while you're > right about so little happening in terms of activity in this instance the > fighter coming forward really could do nothing in terms of setting the > pace, > controlling distance, making the fight go to his terms etc. Haye lands > only > a couple of punches, but Valuev lands none!
Yes, I had Haye the winner because I basically score rounds to the person who is most effective in landing punches. "Effective aggression" being the key phrase.
But not all judges do that. Some judges will score inactive rounds to the person moving forward even if he lands one or two less punches. Haye's risk management strategy, while it completely mitigated his risks of being knocked out, came with substantial risk of losing the decision, so I'm not sure in retrospect that it was a good one. ------------------- I hear what you are saying, but I think most would score it the same way. I think Haye did a very clear job of showing that Valuev couldnt hit him, and whenever he tried Valuev didnt control anything. I think they gave those rounds to Froch in their fight because Dirrell was running and reacting to Froch, ie Froch was setting the pace of the fight.
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