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Accoring to memtest86+ at least one of the memory chips in Skybuck's Dream PC from 2006 is damaged and has a bit error.
It turns out the memory chip was *new* from corsair which means it was not touched by the plastic sticker tape incident.
This probably means that the bit error could have been caused by heat expelled from the heatpipes of the top down cpu cooler (Scythe Zipang CPU Cooler).
I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat from heatpipe and will probably change the orientation from the cpu cooler again ?! hopefully for the last time... ;) I am not sure if it's possible though but I might give it a try.)
Long ago somebody recommended I place the heatpipes near the big fan at the top... now I kinda wish I had done that from the start it might have saved a lot of damage...or maybe not ?!? But now I think it could have... maybe sucking away air around heatpipes is a good thing...
I was also wondering if it's maybe possible to not use dim1 which is closest to the cpu ?!? I doubt it though...anyway I think it's best to get those hot heatpipes away from the memory chips...
I guess this was also kinda a experiment to see what would happen and yup after many months... a memory chip got damaged ! So that pretty much confirms the experiment for me: "heatpipes near memory chips not a good idea ?!"
Let me know what you think and peace out !
For me this is becoming a drag... I have fixed this pc so many times it's starting to bum-me-out.
Feels like I am fixing a formula 1 car or dragracing car all the time ! LOL I am kinda fed up with it ! ;)
Heat is a killer that's for sure ! My next PC must be a "cool" and "low heat" and "low power pc" otherwise I will go nuts ! ;) :) (And hopefully have still somewhat decent performance ;))
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De: The Central Screwtinizer <centralscrewtini...@altavista.com>
Data: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 01:03:22 -0400
Local: Sab 31 out 2009 02:03
Assunto: Re: Heat from heatpipes probably damaged a memory chip.
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De: "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencu...@my-deja.com>
Data: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 01:01:10 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sab 31 out 2009 05:01
Assunto: Re: Heat from heatpipes probably damaged a memory chip.
> Accoring to memtest86+ at least one of the memory chips in Skybuck's > Dream PC from 2006 is damaged and has a bit error.
> It turns out the memory chip was *new* from corsair which means it was > not touched by the plastic sticker tape incident.
> This probably means that the bit error could have been caused by heat > expelled from the heatpipes of the top down cpu cooler (Scythe Zipang > CPU Cooler).
> I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response > from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat > from heatpipe and will probably change the orientation from the cpu > cooler again ?! hopefully for the last time... ;) I am not sure if > it's possible though but I might give it a try.)
> Long ago somebody recommended I place the heatpipes near the big fan > at the top... now I kinda wish I had done that from the start it might > have saved a lot of damage...or maybe not ?!? > But now I think it could have... maybe sucking away air around > heatpipes is a good thing...
It looks like they're not touching, but I can't be sure. If they are, you can protect them by placing cardboard between the pieces. If you want to be fancy, get fish paper from an electronics supply.
Too many fans. Silly cooling setup. Memory doesn't mind heat -- notice Micron and Samsung specify 85-95 Celcius max. operating temp. for their DDR2 chips.
Where are the chips? All I see are the modules, which have heatsinks over the chips.
The only ways a heatpipe could have caused damage:
1. It pressed against a heatsink and made a chip glued to it pull away from the circuit board.
2. It touched the edge of the circuit board and just happened to short some copper plane or traces right at the edge. But I thought module circuit boards were designed to leave a tiny bit of space between the copper and the edges.
But it couldn't have been the heat because the contact area was too small, even if the contact was against a heatsink.
You're not using the world's best memory because the chips are covered by heatsinks, and Corsair admits that it uses UTT (UnTesTed) RAM chips, rather than prime quality chips (will have actual manufacturer's ID markings on chip packages).
> I was also wondering if it's maybe possible to not use dim1 which is > closest to the cpu ?!?
Almost always.
> I doubt it though...anyway I think it's best to get those hot > heatpipes away from the memory chips...
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De: "SteveH" <steve.houghREM...@THISblueyonder.co.uk>
Data: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:24:19 GMT
Local: Sab 31 out 2009 06:24
Assunto: Re: Heat from heatpipes probably damaged a memory chip.
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>> Accoring to memtest86+ at least one of the memory chips in Skybuck's >> Dream PC from 2006 is damaged and has a bit error.
>> It turns out the memory chip was *new* from corsair which means it was >> not touched by the plastic sticker tape incident.
>> This probably means that the bit error could have been caused by heat >> expelled from the heatpipes of the top down cpu cooler (Scythe Zipang >> CPU Cooler).
>> I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response >> from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat >> from heatpipe and will probably change the orientation from the cpu >> cooler again ?! hopefully for the last time... ;) I am not sure if >> it's possible though but I might give it a try.)
>> Long ago somebody recommended I place the heatpipes near the big fan >> at the top... now I kinda wish I had done that from the start it might >> have saved a lot of damage...or maybe not ?!? >> But now I think it could have... maybe sucking away air around >> heatpipes is a good thing...
>It looks like they're not touching, but I can't be sure. If they are, >you can protect them by placing cardboard between the pieces. If you >want to be fancy, get fish paper from an electronics supply.
>Where are the chips? All I see are the modules, which have heatsinks >over the chips.
>The only ways a heatpipe could have caused damage:
>1. It pressed against a heatsink and made a chip glued to it pull away >from the circuit board.
>2. It touched the edge of the circuit board and just happened to short >some copper plane or traces right at the edge. But I thought module >circuit boards were designed to leave a tiny bit of space between the >copper and the edges.
>But it couldn't have been the heat because the contact area was too >small, even if the contact was against a heatsink.
>You're not using the world's best memory because the chips are covered >by heatsinks, and Corsair admits that it uses UTT (UnTesTed) RAM >chips, rather than prime quality chips (will have actual >manufacturer's ID markings on chip packages).
>> I was also wondering if it's maybe possible to not use dim1 which is >> closest to the cpu ?!?
>Almost always.
>> I doubt it though...anyway I think it's best to get those hot >> heatpipes away from the memory chips...
>They probably don't matter.
From 2k6? The AMD CPUs then were very good at thermal management, and if he did NOT overclock, the whole damned set-up is HUGE overkill.
The best way to manage your PCs thermals are to MONITOR them, and observe what temperatures things are being raised to. DUH!
>Accoring to memtest86+ at least one of the memory chips in Skybuck's >Dream PC from 2006 is damaged and has a bit error.
>It turns out the memory chip was *new* from corsair which means it was >not touched by the plastic sticker tape incident.
>This probably means that the bit error could have been caused by heat >expelled from the heatpipes of the top down cpu cooler (Scythe Zipang >CPU Cooler).
>I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response >from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat >from heatpipe and will probably change the orientation from the cpu >cooler again ?! hopefully for the last time... ;) I am not sure if >it's possible though but I might give it a try.)
>Long ago somebody recommended I place the heatpipes near the big fan >at the top... now I kinda wish I had done that from the start it might >have saved a lot of damage...or maybe not ?!? >But now I think it could have... maybe sucking away air around >heatpipes is a good thing...
>I was also wondering if it's maybe possible to not use dim1 which is >closest to the cpu ?!? >I doubt it though...anyway I think it's best to get those hot >heatpipes away from the memory chips...
>I guess this was also kinda a experiment to see what would happen and >yup after many months... a memory chip got damaged ! So that pretty >much confirms the experiment for me: "heatpipes near memory chips not >a good idea ?!"
>Let me know what you think and peace out !
>For me this is becoming a drag... I have fixed this pc so many times >it's starting to bum-me-out.
>Feels like I am fixing a formula 1 car or dragracing car all the >time ! LOL I am kinda fed up with it ! ;)
>Heat is a killer that's for sure ! My next PC must be a "cool" and >"low heat" and "low power pc" otherwise I will go nuts ! ;) :) (And >hopefully have still somewhat decent performance ;))
>Bye, > Skybuck.
From looking at the picture of how you have the CPU heatsink attached, you should have the heatpipes facting towards the back of the case close to the exaust fans. in that Antec 1200 case
>> Accoring to memtest86+ at least one of the memory chips in Skybuck's >> Dream PC from 2006 is damaged and has a bit error.
>> It turns out the memory chip was *new* from corsair which means it was >> not touched by the plastic sticker tape incident.
>> This probably means that the bit error could have been caused by heat >> expelled from the heatpipes of the top down cpu cooler (Scythe Zipang >> CPU Cooler).
>> I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response >> from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it was heat >> from heatpipe and will probably change the orientation from the cpu >> cooler again ?! hopefully for the last time... ;) I am not sure if >> it's possible though but I might give it a try.)
>> Long ago somebody recommended I place the heatpipes near the big fan >> at the top... now I kinda wish I had done that from the start it might >> have saved a lot of damage...or maybe not ?!? >> But now I think it could have... maybe sucking away air around >> heatpipes is a good thing...
>It looks like they're not touching, but I can't be sure. If they are, >you can protect them by placing cardboard between the pieces. If you >want to be fancy, get fish paper from an electronics supply.
>Where are the chips? All I see are the modules, which have heatsinks >over the chips.
>The only ways a heatpipe could have caused damage:
>1. It pressed against a heatsink and made a chip glued to it pull away >from the circuit board.
>2. It touched the edge of the circuit board and just happened to short >some copper plane or traces right at the edge. But I thought module >circuit boards were designed to leave a tiny bit of space between the >copper and the edges.
>But it couldn't have been the heat because the contact area was too >small, even if the contact was against a heatsink.
>You're not using the world's best memory because the chips are covered >by heatsinks, and Corsair admits that it uses UTT (UnTesTed) RAM >chips, rather than prime quality chips (will have actual >manufacturer's ID markings on chip packages).
>> I was also wondering if it's maybe possible to not use dim1 which is >> closest to the cpu ?!?
>Almost always.
>> I doubt it though...anyway I think it's best to get those hot >> heatpipes away from the memory chips...
Agreed, he needs to reverse how he has that heatsink mounted
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On Oct 31, 10:24 am, "SteveH" <steve.houghREM...@THISblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Skybuckwrote: > > Hello,
> > I have taken some pictures to show you guys and to get some response > > from what you think killed it... (I am pretty convinced it washeat
> All those pictures show is that you live in a dusty environment and either > don't have air filters on your PC, or don't clean it enough.
> -- > SteveH
Which gives me a new interesting theory:
The Scythe Zipang is a top down cooler... which could mean it blew dust into the memory chips from above... and somehow that tiny little bit of dust caused a short circuit in the memory chip ! ;)
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Another theory/hypothesis which I am slighty worried about is the following:
"Water vapor from the dust filters was blown towards the memory chips and was blown into the memory chips which caused a short circuit".
Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly... I just made sure most of the moisture was gone... just little bit of moisture was left.
So I wonder if it's possible for tiny little micro drupplets of water to float through the air and kill a chip ?!?
To me this seems unlikely but reality is usually more strange than fantasy ! ;)
One last theory/hypothesis which I already wrote about in the past is: "pc is not grounded, and me touching pc causes static electricic feedback into the pc, since motherboard(s) is/are known to have some leakage, so reversed path seems plausible".
I will probably call an electrician to check out and change the power sockets with "grounding power sockets"... I am curious if he will discovery anything about the power sockets... like maybe no grounding wire present :)
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Skybuck wrote: > Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was > running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a > kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly...
Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP?
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De: "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencu...@my-deja.com>
Data: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 16:11:30 -0800 (PST)
Local: Dom 1 nov 2009 22:11
Assunto: Re: Heat from heatpipes probably damaged a memory chip.
Skybuck wrote: > The Scythe Zipang is a top down cooler... which could mean it blew > dust into the memory chips from above... and somehow that tiny little > bit of dust caused a short circuit in the memory chip ! ;)
Not unless the computer was next to a busy metal lathe or milling machine.
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>> Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was >> running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a >> kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly...
> Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP?
Real, can't find the video of the kid...
But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing their dust filters with water ! ;)
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>>> Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was >>> running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a >>> kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly... >> Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP?
> Real, can't find the video of the kid...
> But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing their dust > filters with water ! ;)
> Makes ya wonder doesn't it ! ;) :)
> Bye, > Skybuck.
Nothing wrong with that as long as you let them dry out.
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>>>> Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was >>>> running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a >>>> kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly... >>> Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP?
>> Real, can't find the video of the kid...
>> But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing their >> dust filters with water ! ;)
>> Makes ya wonder doesn't it ! ;) :)
>> Bye, >> Skybuck.
> Nothing wrong with that as long as you let them dry out.
But then one needs to wait... which is "down time"... and might be unneccessary ? (Also cleaning it dry takes more time and toiletpaper ! ;))
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>> Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was >> running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a >> kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly...
>Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP?
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>>>>> Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was >>>>> running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a >>>>> kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly... >>>> Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP? >>> Real, can't find the video of the kid...
>>> But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing their >>> dust filters with water ! ;)
>>> Makes ya wonder doesn't it ! ;) :)
>>> Bye, >>> Skybuck. >> Nothing wrong with that as long as you let them dry out.
> But then one needs to wait... which is "down time"... and might be > unneccessary ? > (Also cleaning it dry takes more time and toiletpaper ! ;))
> The real question is:
> What happens if it's slightly wet/moisturish ;)
> Anybody know ? ;) :) =D
> Bye, > Skybuck ;) =D
What happens if you just run the system without the dust filter on until it dries? Would it be so bad? Oh wait, why not get extra dust filters so you can rotate them out for cleaning...
>>>>>> Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was >>>>>> running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a >>>>>> kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly... >>>>> Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP? >>>> Real, can't find the video of the kid...
>>>> But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing their >>>> dust filters with water ! ;)
>>>> Makes ya wonder doesn't it ! ;) :)
>>>> Bye, >>>> Skybuck. >>> Nothing wrong with that as long as you let them dry out.
>> But then one needs to wait... which is "down time"... and might be >> unneccessary ? >> (Also cleaning it dry takes more time and toiletpaper ! ;))
>> The real question is:
>> What happens if it's slightly wet/moisturish ;)
>> Anybody know ? ;) :) =D
>> Bye, >> Skybuck ;) =D
> What happens if you just run the system without the dust filter on >until it dries? Would it be so bad? Oh wait, why not get extra dust >filters so you can rotate them out for cleaning...
Go buy a REAL blower system, place it in the next room, or in the wall, and filter THAT on the intake side, then ALL the air it forces into the PC will be clean, and the only difference is the pipe (hose) leading into the PC from the mystery location. 4" Pipe should work well.
Then, you could use an automotive filter on the front end of the thing. The highest tech consumer level filter you can get, dollar for dollar.
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>>>>>> Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was >>>>>> running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because a >>>>>> kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly... >>>>> Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like SPINALTAP? >>>> Real, can't find the video of the kid...
>>>> But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing their >>>> dust filters with water ! ;)
>>>> Makes ya wonder doesn't it ! ;) :)
>>>> Bye, >>>> Skybuck. >>> Nothing wrong with that as long as you let them dry out.
>> But then one needs to wait... which is "down time"... and might be >> unneccessary ? >> (Also cleaning it dry takes more time and toiletpaper ! ;))
>> The real question is:
>> What happens if it's slightly wet/moisturish ;)
>> Anybody know ? ;) :) =D
>> Bye, >> Skybuck ;) =D
> What happens if you just run the system without the dust filter on until > it dries? Would it be so bad? Oh wait, why not get extra dust filters so > you can rotate them out for cleaning...
I thought about the idea of extra dust filters... might be a nice idea for antec in the future ! Why didn't they think of it ! ;) :)
I would still like to know the answer to my question:
What happens if the air in the room is moisterish... for example... suppose I take a shower... and there is this gas burning near the pc... lot's of gasses being burned and expelled into the air...
What will the effect of burned gas be on for example the asus motherboard ?!?
I am beginning to suspect that the asus motherboard in combination with burned gasses, some moisture and heat... is corroding or so... ?!?
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>>>>>>> Not so long ago I cleaned the pc-case dust filters while the pc was >>>>>>> running... I decided not to dry the dust filters thoroughly because >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> kid on youtube also didn't try them thoroughly... >>>>>> Is this guy for real? Or is this some kind of parody, like >>>>>> SPINALTAP? >>>>> Real, can't find the video of the kid...
>>>>> But search for antec 1200 and you'll see plenty of people washing >>>>> their dust filters with water ! ;)
>>>>> Makes ya wonder doesn't it ! ;) :)
>>>>> Bye, >>>>> Skybuck. >>>> Nothing wrong with that as long as you let them dry out.
>>> But then one needs to wait... which is "down time"... and might be >>> unneccessary ? >>> (Also cleaning it dry takes more time and toiletpaper ! ;))
>>> The real question is:
>>> What happens if it's slightly wet/moisturish ;)
>>> Anybody know ? ;) :) =D
>>> Bye, >>> Skybuck ;) =D
>> What happens if you just run the system without the dust filter on >> until it dries? Would it be so bad? Oh wait, why not get extra dust >> filters so you can rotate them out for cleaning...
> I thought about the idea of extra dust filters... might be a nice idea for > antec in the future ! Why didn't they think of it ! ;) :)
> I would still like to know the answer to my question:
> What happens if the air in the room is moisterish... for example... > suppose I take a shower... and there is this gas burning near the pc... > lot's of gasses being burned and expelled into the air...
> What will the effect of burned gas be on for example the asus motherboard > ?!?
> I am beginning to suspect that the asus motherboard in combination with > burned gasses, some moisture and heat... is corroding or so... ?!?
> Bye, > Skybuck.
Mother boards and related equipment have environmental ratings that tell you the maximum humidity and temperature they will tolerate. Exceed that and you run the risk of condensation and corrosion. Condensation on high frequency high impedance circuits can bring your computer down right now, blammo, and stay down until it dries. Just putting a finger across some of these traces will crash your computer. Extended exposure to moisture can cause corrosion that can eventually kill your computer, though you would have to run it in a sweathouse to get that to happen. The heat inside of the case is usually enough to keep moisture from condensing under most circumstances. A moist dust filter and the temporary increase in humidity is not likely to hurt anything.
And if you put your computer in your oven, then it isn't the burned gasses that will kill it...
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> Mother boards and related equipment have environmental ratings that tell you > the maximum humidity and temperature they will tolerate. Exceed that and you > run the risk of condensation and corrosion. Condensation on high frequency > high impedance circuits can bring your computer down right now, blammo, and > stay down until it dries. Just putting a finger across some of these traces > will crash your computer.
You must be dealing with some awfully crappy motherboards with totally bare traces.
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>> Mother boards and related equipment have environmental ratings that tell >> you the maximum humidity and temperature they will tolerate. Exceed that >> and you run the risk of condensation and corrosion. Condensation on high >> frequency high impedance circuits can bring your computer down right now, >> blammo, and stay down until it dries. Just putting a finger across some >> of these traces will crash your computer.
> You must be dealing with some awfully crappy motherboards with totally > bare traces.
Out there in the real world, it happens. Not every piece of electronic equipment is a nice neat color coordinated motherboard with pretty traces and an aesthetically pleasing design, not to mention your "conformal coating".
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>>> Mother boards and related equipment have environmental ratings that tell >>> you the maximum humidity and temperature they will tolerate. Exceed that >>> and you run the risk of condensation and corrosion. Condensation on high >>> frequency high impedance circuits can bring your computer down right now, >>> blammo, and stay down until it dries. Just putting a finger across some >>> of these traces will crash your computer. >> You must be dealing with some awfully crappy motherboards with totally >> bare traces.
> Out there in the real world, it happens. Not every piece of electronic > equipment is a nice neat color coordinated motherboard with pretty traces > and an aesthetically pleasing design, not to mention your "conformal > coating".
Sorry,Zootal... I've been dealing with "real world" printed circuit boards a long time. I might even venture that I was possibly repairing them before you were born.
I've repaired marine electronics from sunken boats, portable two-way radios found in sewers, pagers that went swimming in toilets, dispatch consoles that have had the "Pepsi Treatment" (lattes and mochas are worse..but "PT" is the generic term), and radio base stations doused in rat pee for years.
I know what can happens from "exposure".
Yes, early PC mobos were "bare-assed traces", but any reasonable mobo made in the last 10-15 years has some form of coating. Your "finger touch" doesn't fly.
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>>>> Mother boards and related equipment have environmental ratings that >>>> tell you the maximum humidity and temperature they will tolerate. >>>> Exceed that and you run the risk of condensation and corrosion. >>>> Condensation on high frequency high impedance circuits can bring your >>>> computer down right now, blammo, and stay down until it dries. Just >>>> putting a finger across some of these traces will crash your computer. >>> You must be dealing with some awfully crappy motherboards with totally >>> bare traces.
>> Out there in the real world, it happens. Not every piece of electronic >> equipment is a nice neat color coordinated motherboard with pretty traces >> and an aesthetically pleasing design, not to mention your "conformal >> coating".
> Sorry,Zootal... I've been dealing with "real world" printed circuit boards > a long time. I might even venture that I was possibly repairing them > before you were born.
> I've repaired marine electronics from sunken boats, portable two-way > radios found in sewers, pagers that went swimming in toilets, dispatch > consoles that have had the "Pepsi Treatment" (lattes and mochas are > worse..but "PT" is the generic term), and radio base stations doused in > rat pee for years.
> I know what can happens from "exposure".
> Yes, early PC mobos were "bare-assed traces", but any reasonable mobo made > in the last 10-15 years has some form of coating. Your "finger touch" > doesn't fly.
It is possible you were repairing them before I was born. If so, that would make you upwards of 75 years old. I've met older people out here, so I suppose that is entirely possible. But don't tell me what is and is not out there. Yes, there is a lot of nicely made boards properly coated etc. etc. But I stand by my statement - there is a lot of stuff with "bare ass" traces and worse. Once you get out of the realm of your pretty consumer grade electronics and move into the world of military and custom (and not-so-custom) commercial equipment, you see a stunning range of quality and reliability - good and bad.
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