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I'm looking for a 250 W PSU 80+ micro-ATX in Europe and I have trouble to find one. Dell sells some Desktop PC with PSU of this type, but I'm building a PC myself and so I need it alone.
Does someone has some hints?
Best regards to everyone and thanks to replying people,
<andrea.ferra...@gmail.com> wrote: >I'm looking for a 250 W PSU 80+ micro-ATX in Europe and I have trouble >to find one. Dell sells some Desktop PC with PSU of this type, but I'm >building a PC myself and so I need it alone.
>Does someone has some hints?
>Best regards to everyone and thanks to replying people,
In article <hcng3v$vl...@aioe.org>, andrea.ferra...@gmail.com says...
> I'm looking for a 250 W PSU 80+ micro-ATX in Europe and I have trouble > to find one. Dell sells some Desktop PC with PSU of this type, but I'm > building a PC myself and so I need it alone.
> Does someone has some hints?
> Best regards to everyone and thanks to replying people,
they are 300 W, it is about 20% more than the desired. I'm not obsessed by 250 (also 240, 255, 235 or 260 do work :-). The point is that this Tom's hardware article http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069-5.html I found very interesting, demonstrates that a PSU really well sized (in such case 220 W) gives a power saving of some tens percents, because the PSU works at a load level where it yelds really much and better.
My system will be a bit energy hungrier than such of the article; it is my CPU will be the E7500 (2,93 Ghz) instead of the E7200 (2,53 Ghz), I'll have 2 hard disks (but green, it is WD SATA 500GB 32Mb cache), and then also 4 GB of RAM and a DVD writer, so, instead of a 220 W PSU a 250 should work right, but a 300 will be at least a bit oversized and so overconsuming.
> they are 300 W, it is about 20% more than the desired. > I'm not obsessed by 250 (also 240, 255, 235 or 260 do work :-). > The point is that this Tom's hardware article > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069-5.html > I found very interesting, demonstrates that a PSU really well sized (in > such case 220 W) gives a power saving of some tens percents, because the > PSU works at a load level where it yelds really much and better.
> My system will be a bit energy hungrier than such of the article; it is > my CPU will be the E7500 (2,93 Ghz) instead of the E7200 (2,53 Ghz), > I'll have 2 hard disks (but green, it is WD SATA 500GB 32Mb cache), and > then also 4 GB of RAM and a DVD writer, so, instead of a 220 W PSU a 250 > should work right, but a 300 will be at least a bit oversized and so > overconsuming.
> Regards and thanks again,
> Andrea
300W rating was the smallest I found with 80+ certification. Do report back if you happen to find 250W P/S that are 80+ certified and available for sale.
> In article <hcpts5$5f...@aioe.org>, andrea.ferra...@gmail.com says... >> Andy and Steve, thank you ... but ;-)
>> they are 300 W, it is about 20% more than the desired. >> I'm not obsessed by 250 (also 240, 255, 235 or 260 do work :-). >> The point is that this Tom's hardware article >> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069-5.html >> I found very interesting, demonstrates that a PSU really well sized (in >> such case 220 W) gives a power saving of some tens percents, because the >> PSU works at a load level where it yelds really much and better.
>> My system will be a bit energy hungrier than such of the article; it is >> my CPU will be the E7500 (2,93 Ghz) instead of the E7200 (2,53 Ghz), >> I'll have 2 hard disks (but green, it is WD SATA 500GB 32Mb cache), and >> then also 4 GB of RAM and a DVD writer, so, instead of a 220 W PSU a 250 >> should work right, but a 300 will be at least a bit oversized and so >> overconsuming.
>> Regards and thanks again,
>> Andrea
> 300W rating was the smallest I found with 80+ certification. > Do report back if you happen to find 250W P/S that are 80+ certified > and available for sale.
The problem is "available for sale"; it is b.e. Dell uses in some of its Desktop, 80+ (or better) PSUs. I don't understand why they are so difficult to find because, if you use the PC many hours a day, b.e. in office context, then in few years you can get back the money you spent to buy them or more because the difference is not so big (from about 30$ to about $50) and you are environment friendly. I've found this one, Seasonic SS-250SU, but I fear that it can't match with my micro ATX mobo, now I'll check and then if it doesn't work I'll go for a 300 W (I've found one for sale, new also here in Italy). I'd like also if it can be quiet.
> Steve ha scritto: >> In article <hcpts5$5f...@aioe.org>, andrea.ferra...@gmail.com says... >>> Andy and Steve, thank you ... but ;-)
>>> they are 300 W, it is about 20% more than the desired. >>> I'm not obsessed by 250 (also 240, 255, 235 or 260 do work :-). >>> The point is that this Tom's hardware article >>> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069-5.html >>> I found very interesting, demonstrates that a PSU really well sized >>> (in such case 220 W) gives a power saving of some tens percents, >>> because the PSU works at a load level where it yelds really much and >>> better.
>>> My system will be a bit energy hungrier than such of the article; it >>> is my CPU will be the E7500 (2,93 Ghz) instead of the E7200 (2,53 >>> Ghz), I'll have 2 hard disks (but green, it is WD SATA 500GB 32Mb >>> cache), and then also 4 GB of RAM and a DVD writer, so, instead of a >>> 220 W PSU a 250 should work right, but a 300 will be at least a bit >>> oversized and so overconsuming.
>>> Regards and thanks again,
>>> Andrea
>> 300W rating was the smallest I found with 80+ certification. >> Do report back if you happen to find 250W P/S that are 80+ certified >> and available for sale.
> The problem is "available for sale"; it is b.e. Dell uses in some of its > Desktop, 80+ (or better) PSUs. I don't understand why they are so > difficult to find because, if you use the PC many hours a day, b.e. in > office context, then in few years you can get back the money you spent > to buy them or more because the difference is not so big (from about 30$ > to about $50) and you are environment friendly. > I've found this one, Seasonic SS-250SU, but I fear that it can't match > with my micro ATX mobo, now I'll check and then if it doesn't work I'll > go for a 300 W (I've found one for sale, new also here in Italy). I'd > like also if it can be quiet.
> Regards and thanks again
I think I was wrong, if I understand well it is "up to 80%", so it's not 80+. Then I saw also that less powerfull is the PSU more quickly turns its fan when the power required grows because it become hotter and so more noisy. I'm wondering if are there fanless PSUs, 80+, 240-260 W and I'm almost sure that there aren't.
Well, after many Internet search I've found two 300 W PSU 80+ (one ATX, the other micro ATX) that I can get here where I live without customs taxes and in short times.
They are the Seasonic SS-300SFD Micro ATX, that I can get all included for about 64 EUR and the Thermaltake TR2 QFan 300W that I can get at about 54 EUR.
The micro ATX case I choose should support both (micro ATX and ATX). What would you sugggest and why?
> Well, after many Internet search I've found two 300 W PSU 80+ (one ATX, > the other micro ATX) that I can get here where I live without customs > taxes and in short times.
> They are the Seasonic SS-300SFD Micro ATX, that I can get all included > for about 64 EUR and the Thermaltake TR2 QFan 300W that I can get at > about 54 EUR.
> The micro ATX case I choose should support both (micro ATX and ATX). > What would you sugggest and why?
> Thanks to replying people, regards to all,
> Andrea
The Seasonic is fixed 220VAC input. As long as that is what you're looking for, the specs look great. They look better than any other microATX I was looking at yesterday. Active PFC works against efficiency, but is mandated for operation in Europe.
The Thermaltake has slightly weaker low voltage rails. There is a whole family of power supplies with TR2 in the name, so it is quite possible the one you're looking at, is a different model.
> The Seasonic is fixed 220VAC input. As long as that is what you're looking > for, the specs look great. They look better than any other microATX > I was looking at yesterday. Active PFC works against efficiency, but > is mandated for operation in Europe.
I have to say that I know about nothing about that, so what I'm going to write could be fully wrong, but I report only things (maybe false or misunderstood) I read, it is, I read that Active PFC enhance efficiency in some different places and (but it's unrelated - I think) I saw that 220 vattage instead of 110 could be good for efficiency because in a comparartive table of most efficient PSU there were more model at 220 than at 110 and at 220 was given also the category of Platinum 80 (also if it was empty). Anyway this last consideration about vattage is absolutely unsure and unerliable, insead, about Active PFC I read that in some different and also normally reliable places like Anandtech.
> The Thermaltake has slightly weaker low voltage rails. There is a > whole family of power supplies with TR2 in the name, so it is quite > possible the one you're looking at, is a different model.
twistedbrain wrote: > Paul thank You, >> The Seasonic is fixed 220VAC input. As long as that is what you're looking >> for, the specs look great. They look better than any other microATX >> I was looking at yesterday. Active PFC works against efficiency, but >> is mandated for operation in Europe.
> I have to say that I know about nothing about that, so what I'm going > to write > could be fully wrong, but I report only things (maybe false or > misunderstood) > I read, it is, I read that Active PFC enhance efficiency in some > different places > and (but it's unrelated - I think) I saw that 220 vattage instead of > 110 could be > good for efficiency because in a comparartive table of most efficient > PSU there > were more model at 220 than at 110 and at 220 was given also the > category of > Platinum 80 (also if it was empty). > Anyway this last consideration about vattage is absolutely unsure and > unerliable, > insead, about Active PFC I read that in some different and also > normally reliable > places like Anandtech.
Active PFC helps the power company. It may cost the user a small amount of efficiency. I don't think it is completely neutral in terms of its effects on the user's power bill. The power supply still meets its stated efficiency. My comment was more about the conflicting nature of PFC - active power factor correction helps the power company, but may not always work in the favor of the end user. If you look at the power supplies sold in North America, there isn't the same emphasis on PFC, and I don't think any of the supplies I own, have PFC.
There could be a difference between efficiency at 110 versus 220 volts. But in the case of the Seasonic, that particular one only operates at 220 volts. I mentioned that, so that you'd check to see whether your power source is 220V or not. If you're in a country using 110V, then that particular Seasonic could not be used.
If you have room in the computer case for a regular sized ATX supply, there are supplies with a higher efficiency than 80%. This model, for example, claim 87%. It appears to use a DC-DC converter, to convert 12V to 3.3V and 5V. So the main part of the supply is just a 12V circuit. It means the path to 3.3V and 5V, goes through two conversion steps.
Scroll down, and look at the test results carefully. This new design works best, if there is minimal 3.3V/5V loading. So for computers that draw most of their power from 12V, the supply gets around 90% efficiency. If you heavily load the 3.3V and 5V rails, the efficiency drops to 85%. You could see very good results here, as long as the motherboard doesn't need too much to run the chipset and peripheral chips. Of course, you need room in your computer case to fit this. You may want to verify the dimensions, and see how well it fits your computer case.
> Well, after many Internet search I've found two 300 W PSU 80+ (one ATX, > the other micro ATX) that I can get here where I live without customs > taxes and in short times.
> They are the Seasonic SS-300SFD Micro ATX, that I can get all included > for about 64 EUR and the Thermaltake TR2 QFan 300W that I can get at > about 54 EUR.
> The micro ATX case I choose should support both (micro ATX and ATX). > What would you sugggest and why?
> Thanks to replying people, regards to all,
> Andrea
If your case can take an ATX size P/S you might want to look at a
SeaSonic S12II 330 Bronze 330W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail Energy Star 5.0 Ready
> There could be a difference between efficiency at 110 versus 220 volts. > But in the case of the Seasonic, that particular one only operates > at 220 volts. I mentioned that, so that you'd check to see whether > your power source is 220V or not. If you're in a country using 110V, > then that particular Seasonic could not be used.
In Europe (at least the normal part of it, not England and Sicily :-) we are using 220V, so I'm right.
> If you have room in the computer case for a regular sized ATX supply, > there are supplies with a higher efficiency than 80%. This model, for > example, claim 87%. It appears to use a DC-DC converter, to convert
It's really interesting and beautiful, but for me, really oversized because I'll have a CPU not very energy hangry (max 65 W, Intel E7500), a mobo + integrated graphic card too (G31 chipset), then two HD, but green (I think for sure less than 10 W each), then 4 GB RAM DDR2 800 Mhz (I don't know how much they absorbe, but I don't think very much) and a DVD writer. So my system doesn't use almost never more than 200-250 W and for the most time between 50 and 150. A 650 W PSU is not well suited for that. Then it isn't cheap at all.
I'll have 3 SATA devices. Do you know what can I do if the PSU gives only 2 SATA power connection. Can I take power from some other connection with some converter?
> In article <hct7om$15...@aioe.org>, andrea.ferra...@gmail.com says...
> > Hello world!
> > Well, after many Internet search I've found two 300 W PSU 80+ (one ATX, > > the other micro ATX) that I can get here where I live without customs > > taxes and in short times.
> > They are the Seasonic SS-300SFD Micro ATX, that I can get all included > > for about 64 EUR and the Thermaltake TR2 QFan 300W that I can get at > > about 54 EUR.
> > The micro ATX case I choose should support both (micro ATX and ATX). > > What would you sugggest and why?
> > Thanks to replying people, regards to all,
> > Andrea
> If your case can take an ATX size P/S you might want to look at a
> SeaSonic S12II 330 Bronze 330W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified > Active PFC Power Supply - Retail > Energy Star 5.0 Ready
It's not a bad idea. I saw it and I don't know, because it is a litle better then the SS-300SFD, it is more efficient, but it is also a litle bigger (330 instead of 300 and I wonted a 250) and a litle more expensive, so I don't know.
twistedbrain wrote: > On 5 Nov, 20:01, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
>> There could be a difference between efficiency at 110 versus 220 volts. >> But in the case of the Seasonic, that particular one only operates >> at 220 volts. I mentioned that, so that you'd check to see whether >> your power source is 220V or not. If you're in a country using 110V, >> then that particular Seasonic could not be used.
> In Europe (at least the normal part of it, not England and Sicily :-) > we are > using 220V, so I'm right.
>> If you have room in the computer case for a regular sized ATX supply, >> there are supplies with a higher efficiency than 80%. This model, for >> example, claim 87%. It appears to use a DC-DC converter, to convert
> It's really interesting and beautiful, but for me, really oversized > because I'll have a > CPU not very energy hangry (max 65 W, Intel E7500), a mobo + > integrated graphic > card too (G31 chipset), then two HD, but green (I think for sure less > than 10 W each), > then 4 GB RAM DDR2 800 Mhz (I don't know how much they absorbe, but I > don't think > very much) and a DVD writer. So my system doesn't use almost never > more than > 200-250 W and for the most time between 50 and 150. A 650 W PSU is not > well suited for > that. Then it isn't cheap at all.
> I'll have 3 SATA devices. Do you know what can I do if the PSU gives > only 2 SATA power > connection. Can I take power from some other connection with some > converter?
> Regards,
> Andrea
I would recommend this style of converter. It has one female Molex, one male Molex, and that allows the adapters to be "stacked". For each adapter purchased, you get one additional SATA power source. The SATA connector will have 5V and 12V on it (used by modern hard drives), but won't have 3.3V, since 3.3V is not available on a Molex. I use a Molex to SATA adapter on my system, as a convenient power source for temporarily connected SATA drives.
The Molex pins are good for somewhere between 6 and 8 amps or so. There may be too much voltage drop in the cabling, if you go much higher than that. The hard drive can sense low voltage, and do a reset if the voltage drops only a little below the official 12V value.
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 14:45:38 -0800 (PST), twistedbrain > <andrea.ferra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In Europe (at least the normal part of it, not England and Sicily :-) >> we are using 220V, so I'm right.
> Normal in Europe are 230V.
Maybe yes but maybe more "precisely" 220-240 and about Sicily I was joking it is the same that in Italy and Europe; but in England I'm not sure because they drive on the left, but over all use strange and abnormal measure unit like pound, miles, but they already use arabic number instead of latin ones, I hope you too ;-)
<andrea.ferra...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> In Europe (at least the normal part of it, not England and Sicily :-) >>> we are using 220V, so I'm right.
>> Normal in Europe are 230V.
> Maybe yes but maybe more "precisely" 220-240 and about Sicily I was joking > it is the same that in Italy and Europe; but in England I'm not sure > because they drive on the left, but over all use strange and abnormal > measure unit like pound, miles, but they already use arabic number > instead of latin ones, I hope you too ;-)
Following voltage harmonization all electricity supplied within the European Union is now nominally 230 V ± 10% at 50 Hz. For a transition period (1995–2008), countries that had previously used 220 V changed to a narrower asymmetric tolerance range of 230 V +6% -10% and those (like the UK) that had previously used 240 V changed to 230 V +10% -6%. Note that no change in voltage is required by either system as both 220 V and 240 V fall within the lower 230 V tolerance bands (230 V ±6%). In practice this means that countries such as the UK that previously supplied 240 V continue to do so, and those that previously supplied 220 V continue to do so. However equipment should be designed to accept any voltages within the specified range.
> On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:52:06 +0100, twistedbrain
> <andrea.ferra...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> In Europe (at least the normal part of it, not England and Sicily :-) > >>> we are using 220V, so I'm right.
> >> Normal in Europe are 230V.
> > Maybe yes but maybe more "precisely" 220-240 and about Sicily I was joking > > it is the same that in Italy and Europe; but in England I'm not sure > > because they drive on the left, but over all use strange and abnormal > > measure unit like pound, miles, but they already use arabic number > > instead of latin ones, I hope you too ;-)
> Following voltage harmonization all electricity supplied within the > European Union is now nominally 230 V ± 10% at 50 Hz. > For a transition period (1995–2008), countries that had previously used > 220 V changed to a narrower asymmetric tolerance range of 230 V +6% -10% > and those (like the UK) that had previously used 240 V changed to 230 V > +10% -6%. Note that no change in voltage is required by either system > as both 220 V and 240 V fall within the lower 230 V tolerance bands > (230 V ±6%). In practice this means that countries such as the UK that > previously supplied 240 V continue to do so, and those that previously > supplied 220 V continue to do so. However equipment should be designed > to accept any voltages within the specified range.
Thank You. Interesting and well documented. Before replying I searched for more precise info, but didn't find them.
My odyssey hunting power supplies ended. I've got Seasonic S12II-330 SS-330GB Bronze - 330 Watt. for 50 E. And then I saved on the case: GMC R-2 Toast 33 E; it seems funny and not so bad.. The PSU is bigger than I wanted (330 vs 250), but I hope that it will be efficient also at low power request, but if in future I'd need a better graphics card than the one on board (Intel GMA 3100) I'll have the power to use it.
Thx to all kind people who replied and give wise advices, regards to everybody
In article <cc321e1a-ed68-41ab-a6dd-af164e75b...@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, andrea.ferra...@gmail.com says...
<snip>
> I've got Seasonic S12II-330 SS-330GB Bronze - 330 Watt. for 50 E. > And then I saved on the case: GMC R-2 Toast 33 E; it seems funny and > not so bad.. > The PSU is bigger than I wanted (330 vs 250), but I hope that it will > be > efficient also at low power request, but if in future I'd need a > better graphics > card than the one on board (Intel GMA 3100) I'll have the power to use > it.
"The S12II Bronze Series achieves the 80 PLUS® Bronze standard of at least 82%, 85% & 82% power usage efficiency at 20%, 50% & 100% operating loads respectively. This, combined with Active Power Factor Correction, enables the S12II Bronze to reduce energy waste, boost power efficiency and more importantly, reduce the energy costs for the users."
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