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I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read it.
I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti- seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent corrosion and seizure of various parts.
Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve. You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to machine the rotors.
Why was this happening? And why so intermittently? Over the last few years or so (I'm a slow learner...), I've been observing other people's brakes through the open-spoke wheels that are common these days, and have noticed that just about nobody has glaze, just lonely ol' me. Obviously it must be something I'm doing wrong.
Then, this last weekend (Mother's Day weekend), I decided to do my annual brake "spring cleaning". While pulling things apart, sanding, greasing, chopping, slicing, dicing and julienning, I noticed the rotors had glazed up, AGAIN! Something made me study the pads closely. To my surprise and alarm, I noticed the pads showed signs of oil seepage and absorption. The absorption areas closely coincided with the glaze on the rotors. The absorption areas also coincided with where I had been most lavish with the anti-seize grease. Worse, the rear disc brakes showed the same symptoms.
It appears on deeper investigation that anti-seizes of all kinds contain very light oils that creep readily when heated. And boy do they creep. This is only a theory right now, but I'm suspecting the oil soaks into the friction material, softening it so it smears on the rotors.
I replaced all the pads and rotors this spring with brand-new OEM. ($$$) The ONLY grease I put this time was under the pad slide shims, between them and the mount bracket, and sparingly, at that. And this time I used a high-temp silicone lube, Sil-Glyde.
In the fall of 2007, I'll see what the rotors look like and report back here.
If anybody has been following my advice had has also experienced rotor glaze, please let me know.
Tegger wrote: > I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read > it.
> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti- > seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent > corrosion and seizure of various parts.
> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I > have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a > smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve. > You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to > machine the rotors.
> Why was this happening? And why so intermittently? Over the last few > years or so (I'm a slow learner...), I've been observing other people's > brakes through the open-spoke wheels that are common these days, and > have noticed that just about nobody has glaze, just lonely ol' me. > Obviously it must be something I'm doing wrong.
> Then, this last weekend (Mother's Day weekend), I decided to do my > annual brake "spring cleaning". While pulling things apart, sanding, > greasing, chopping, slicing, dicing and julienning, I noticed the rotors > had glazed up, AGAIN! Something made me study the pads closely. To my > surprise and alarm, I noticed the pads showed signs of oil seepage and > absorption. The absorption areas closely coincided with the glaze on > the rotors. The absorption areas also coincided with where I had been > most lavish with the anti-seize grease. Worse, the rear disc brakes > showed the same symptoms.
> It appears on deeper investigation that anti-seizes of all kinds contain > very light oils that creep readily when heated. And boy do they creep. > This is only a theory right now, but I'm suspecting the oil soaks into > the friction material, softening it so it smears on the rotors.
> I replaced all the pads and rotors this spring with brand-new OEM. ($$$) > The ONLY grease I put this time was under the pad slide shims, between > them and the mount bracket, and sparingly, at that. And this time I used > a high-temp silicone lube, Sil-Glyde.
> In the fall of 2007, I'll see what the rotors look like and report back > here.
> If anybody has been following my advice had has also experienced rotor > glaze, please let me know.
>I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read > it.
> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti- > seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent > corrosion and seizure of various parts.
> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I > have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a > smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve. > You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to > machine the rotors.
Actually if you drive your vehicle at highway speeds while appyling the brakes lightly, the glaze will be worn off the pads/shoes and drums or rotors. Don't do it for an extended amount of time, just apply the brakes (lightly) for short periods of time or else you will overheat the components. This does work and is easier and less expensive then turning the rotors and replacing the pads.
Brian Smith wrote: > "Tegger" <teg...@tegger.c0m> wrote in message > news:Xns99325D90BC51tegger@207.14.116.130... >> I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read >> it.
>> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti- >> seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent >> corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I >> have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a >> smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve. >> You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to >> machine the rotors.
> Actually if you drive your vehicle at highway speeds while appyling the > brakes lightly, the glaze will be worn off the pads/shoes and drums or > rotors. Don't do it for an extended amount of time, just apply the brakes > (lightly) for short periods of time or else you will overheat the > components. This does work and is easier and less expensive then turning the > rotors and replacing the pads.
------------------------------
I gotta wonder about people who drive a lot in mountainous areas. I'll bet the guys at the brake shops see all kinds of 'symptoms' ! !
> I gotta wonder about people who drive a lot in mountainous areas. I'll bet > the guys at the brake shops see all kinds of 'symptoms' ! !
I run a fleet of refuse and recycling trucks that are in the urban area, except for once or twice a day for a run of 10 kilometres round trip. They do nothing but stop and go forty to fifty feet all day long. The brake rotors/ drums and pads/shoes become glazed within a week or two, it's far more affordable and no down time occurs when using the method I described earlier.
<spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote: >Tegger wrote: >> I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read >> it.
>> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti- >> seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent >> corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I >> have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a >> smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve. >> You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to >> machine the rotors.
>> Why was this happening? And why so intermittently? Over the last few >> years or so (I'm a slow learner...), I've been observing other people's >> brakes through the open-spoke wheels that are common these days, and >> have noticed that just about nobody has glaze, just lonely ol' me. >> Obviously it must be something I'm doing wrong.
>> Then, this last weekend (Mother's Day weekend), I decided to do my >> annual brake "spring cleaning". While pulling things apart, sanding, >> greasing, chopping, slicing, dicing and julienning, I noticed the rotors >> had glazed up, AGAIN! Something made me study the pads closely. To my >> surprise and alarm, I noticed the pads showed signs of oil seepage and >> absorption. The absorption areas closely coincided with the glaze on >> the rotors. The absorption areas also coincided with where I had been >> most lavish with the anti-seize grease. Worse, the rear disc brakes >> showed the same symptoms.
>> It appears on deeper investigation that anti-seizes of all kinds contain >> very light oils that creep readily when heated. And boy do they creep. >> This is only a theory right now, but I'm suspecting the oil soaks into >> the friction material, softening it so it smears on the rotors.
>> I replaced all the pads and rotors this spring with brand-new OEM. ($$$) >> The ONLY grease I put this time was under the pad slide shims, between >> them and the mount bracket, and sparingly, at that. And this time I used >> a high-temp silicone lube, Sil-Glyde.
>> In the fall of 2007, I'll see what the rotors look like and report back >> here.
>> If anybody has been following my advice had has also experienced rotor >> glaze, please let me know.
>1. that's why you've never experienced brake judder! >2. based on that sil-glyde component list, there's not much high >temperature resistance about it.
>if you want "real deal" brake lube, go for molykote m77. and if you >find an economic source of it, let me know!
When using Honda OEM pads they come with a small packet of molykote m77.
>> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti- >> seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent >> corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I >> have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a >> smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve. >> You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to >> machine the rotors.
> Actually if you drive your vehicle at highway speeds while appyling > the > brakes lightly, the glaze will be worn off the pads/shoes and drums or > rotors. Don't do it for an extended amount of time, just apply the brakes > (lightly) for short periods of time or else you will overheat the > components. This does work and is easier and less expensive then turning > the rotors and replacing the pads.
Nah,I come up to stop signs at high speeds and then slam on the brakes. This keeps them from glazing, too... ;)
>> I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of >> anti- seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to >> prevent corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>> Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), >> I have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a >> smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can >> dissolve. You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of >> it is to machine the rotors.
> Actually if you drive your vehicle at highway speeds while > appyling the > brakes lightly, the glaze will be worn off the pads/shoes and drums or > rotors.
On Thu, 17 May 2007 11:23:07 +0000, Tegger wrote: >>> I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest >>> container Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn.
>>> My local Acura dealer can sell me a 75g tube (2.5 oz) for $66. They get >>> their M77 directly from Honda.
Click on "Find a Distributor" and choose your state.
> Guess I'll stick to my off the rack AutoZone brake grease!
I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy the $66 2.5oz tube. I feel the same sort of awe I felt when I bought my first genuine Snap-On wrench: Wowwwww...the REAL thing...
I tried and failed to take descriptive photos of my rear discs, whose friction surfaces resemble the dark gray coating worn by a rifle barrel.
The fronts had patchy glaze, where the outline of the pads was imprinted over and over again in an irregular pattern around the disc, some lighter, some heavier.
I had some serious front brake vibration. A check with a dial gauge showed the discs to be dead true, and yet I had a high-speed vibration. The only conclusion I can come to at this point (surely to be opposed by some others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration").
What components do you put the anti-seize on? I only put this on the two caliper bolts. For the shims of the brake pads I only use the Molykote which is supplied with the OEM pads. I have yet to have this happen on my rotors and they have 116k miles on them.
Nick
On Wed, 16 May 2007 13:11:56 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <teg...@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>I have a (possible) confession to make. It's lengthy, but please read >it.
>I have heretofore been advocating the use of copious quantities of anti- >seize in certain locations during brake servicing in order to prevent >corrosion and seizure of various parts.
>Since the government banned asbestos as a friction material (~1995), I >have had, off and on, problems with glaze on my rotors. Glaze is a >smeary, patchy, durable black substance, which no solvent can dissolve. >You can't even sand it off. The only way of getting rid of it is to >machine the rotors.
>Why was this happening? And why so intermittently? Over the last few >years or so (I'm a slow learner...), I've been observing other people's >brakes through the open-spoke wheels that are common these days, and >have noticed that just about nobody has glaze, just lonely ol' me. >Obviously it must be something I'm doing wrong.
>Then, this last weekend (Mother's Day weekend), I decided to do my >annual brake "spring cleaning". While pulling things apart, sanding, >greasing, chopping, slicing, dicing and julienning, I noticed the rotors >had glazed up, AGAIN! Something made me study the pads closely. To my >surprise and alarm, I noticed the pads showed signs of oil seepage and >absorption. The absorption areas closely coincided with the glaze on >the rotors. The absorption areas also coincided with where I had been >most lavish with the anti-seize grease. Worse, the rear disc brakes >showed the same symptoms.
>It appears on deeper investigation that anti-seizes of all kinds contain >very light oils that creep readily when heated. And boy do they creep. >This is only a theory right now, but I'm suspecting the oil soaks into >the friction material, softening it so it smears on the rotors.
>I replaced all the pads and rotors this spring with brand-new OEM. ($$$) >The ONLY grease I put this time was under the pad slide shims, between >them and the mount bracket, and sparingly, at that. And this time I used >a high-temp silicone lube, Sil-Glyde.
>In the fall of 2007, I'll see what the rotors look like and report back >here.
>If anybody has been following my advice had has also experienced rotor >glaze, please let me know.
> I tried and failed to take descriptive photos of my rear discs, whose > friction surfaces resemble the dark gray coating worn by a rifle barrel.
> The fronts had patchy glaze, where the outline of the pads was imprinted > over and over again in an irregular pattern around the disc, some lighter, > some heavier.
> I had some serious front brake vibration. A check with a dial gauge showed > the discs to be dead true, and yet I had a high-speed vibration. The only > conclusion I can come to at this point (surely to be opposed by some > others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to > cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration").
be in no doubt, if you have that kind of surface contamination, that can /definitely/ cause vibration.
> I tried and failed to take descriptive photos of my rear discs, whose > friction surfaces resemble the dark gray coating worn by a rifle barrel.
> The fronts had patchy glaze, where the outline of the pads was imprinted > over and over again in an irregular pattern around the disc, some lighter, > some heavier.
> I had some serious front brake vibration. A check with a dial gauge showed > the discs to be dead true, and yet I had a high-speed vibration. The only > conclusion I can come to at this point (surely to be opposed by some > others...) is that the glaze caused sufficient frictional differences as to > cause steering wheel wobble ("vibration").
I remember years ago when a friend had an obvious rotor pulse. Machining the rotors made no difference. Changing pads and replacing rotors still made no difference.
The whole problem disapeared when he bought a new set of tires...
<shrug>
JT
(Who thinks gearheading leads to unbalanced thinking...sometimes.)
On Thu, 17 May 2007 18:46:59 +0000, Tegger wrote: > =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= <Tru...@AE86.gts> wrote > in news:K6_2i.7490$4a1.7359@trndny07:
>> On Thu, 17 May 2007 11:23:07 +0000, Tegger wrote:
>>>>> I'm getting told by independent distributors that the smallest >>>>> container Dow sells is a 33oz tub...at $247 Cdn.
>>>>> My local Acura dealer can sell me a 75g tube (2.5 oz) for $66. They >>>>> get their M77 directly from Honda.
> Click on "Find a Distributor" and choose your state.
Everytime I try to go to dowcorning.com, I get a "server error"! WTF?
>> Guess I'll stick to my off the rack AutoZone brake grease!
> I'm gonna bite the bullet and buy the $66 2.5oz tube. I feel the same sort > of awe I felt when I bought my first genuine Snap-On wrench: Wowwwww...the > REAL thing...
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